Jump to content

Photo

Any Stand For Israel Rallies In Your Area


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#21 Alimantado

Alimantado

    Super Contributor

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,483 posts
269
Excellent

Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:46 PM

While Hamas breaks yet another truce, killing two Israeli soldiers and capturing another, Obama says that while Israel has a right to defend herself she must use restraint.
 
Yes, don't hurt the terrorists too much, don't cause any suffering for those who voted Hamas into power and give them aid and support.
 
I don't recall Israel telling President Bush he needed to show restraint when he went after the Taliban and Bin Laden in Afghanistan.

 
I don't know too much about the conflict but I've still got a couple of points to make. First is the 'but they started it' line which I've seen a few times, including in Dave's post above. The insinuation seems to be that because Hamas started it, whatever they get is just desserts and therefore Israel is above any criticism it might receive for how it handles the conflict. My view is that it's just irrelevant whether or not Hamas started it to whether or not Israel should respond proportionately (and I'm not saying they aren't).

 

Secondly, John's remarks about Obama being wrong for telling Israel to defend itself with restraint--if that's what Obama said then it's a totally uncontroversial remark, even redundant. Countries have long expected each other to act with restraint during conflict. You brought up the UK earlier John, saying that it has acted decisively in conflict in the past. Yeah and it has been criticised for its role in conflict many times--bombing of Dresden, sinking of the Belgrano, bloody Sunday, Amritsar massacre are just a few that spring to mind--and rightly criticised too. I'm not saying criticism of Israel is fair and I'm definitely not saying the country's behaviour can be compared to the events I just cited, but the country isn't above criticism--no country is.



#22 Standing Firm In Christ

Standing Firm In Christ

    Super Contributor

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,093 posts
1,170
Excellent
  • LocationSee Bio

Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:47 PM

The Diamond District in New York chases off Palestinian Protesters.

http://www.youtube.c...kZdVeb9iSY#t=18


Edited by Standing Firm In Christ, 05 August 2014 - 07:27 PM.


#23 John81

John81

    Running to Win

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 60,959 posts
5,460
Excellent

Posted 05 August 2014 - 03:29 PM

Where did the concept of "proportional response" come from? Historically, the response has been to hit back as much harder as possible against those who attack you. Talking about "proportional response" opens up the entire gray box as who is to say what is or isn't proportional, or proportional to what, or proportional for who, etc.

 

Did America strike back proportionally after 9-11? Or December 7, 1941?

 

The whole idea of civilized warfare is wrong as war itself isn't civilized. War is about brute force. This stuff today of thinking it's okay to attack a nation and then cry foul when they strike back is actually very ridiculous.

 

In any event, Hamas did draw first blood in this current conflict so the burden of responsibility for what is taking place is upon them.

 

Outside of some sort of Great Awakening taking place among the Palestinians and Israelis the terrorism and war will continue. War is ugly. We (Christians) should be using the weapon of prayer.



#24 No Nicolaitans

No Nicolaitans

    ♫ The B-I-B-L-E...yes, that's the book for me. ♫

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,438 posts
1,229
Excellent

Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:38 PM



#25 DaveW

DaveW

    Resident Aussie and general dumb bloke

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
1,917
Excellent
  • LocationI'm a West Aussie

Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:47 PM


I don't know too much about the conflict but I've still got a couple of points to make. First is the 'but they started it' line which I've seen a few times, including in Dave's post above. The insinuation seems to be that because Hamas started it, whatever they get is just desserts and therefore Israel is above any criticism it might receive for how it handles the conflict. My view is that it's just irrelevant whether or not Hamas started it to whether or not Israel should respond proportionately (and I'm not saying they aren't).

Secondly, John's remarks about Obama being wrong for telling Israel to defend itself with restraint--if that's what Obama said then it's a totally uncontroversial remark, even redundant. Countries have long expected each other to act with restraint during conflict. You brought up the UK earlier John, saying that it has acted decisively in conflict in the past. Yeah and it has been criticised for its role in conflict many times--bombing of Dresden, sinking of the Belgrano, bloody Sunday, Amritsar massacre are just a few that spring to mind--and rightly criticised too. I'm not saying criticism of Israel is fair and I'm definitely not saying the country's behaviour can be compared to the events I just cited, but the country isn't above criticism--no country is.


I never presented the "they started it" response.
What I actually was pointing out is that Hamas constantly break truces even whilst Israel does nothing.
And if you bother to check actual facts you find out that Israel only attacks military targets such as HQ's and rocket launching stations. The problem is that these targets are DELIBERATELY sited by Hamas in Schools and places where they know there will be lots of civilians.

Tell me Ali, if someone were constantly firing rockets at your home, would you just sit back and let them kill your family?
What if someone was hiding behind their own child whilst shooting at you family and friends and the only way to stop them was to shoot through the child?
It is an unlikely personal situation, but not unlike what is going on there.

Hamas put rocket launchers in schools and fire rocket after rocket blindly into Israel aiming at CIVILIAN POPULATION CENTRE THAT HAVE NO MILITARY VALUE OR PRESCENSE. They are deliberately targeting civilians, just as they did with their suicide bomber attacking school busses and cafes a few years ago.

Israel attack rocket launching sites that are placed in high density population centers.

If you bother to read properly I said that it is tragedy on both sides.

But unlike some who post here, I do not deliberately post false information to make it look like it is all Israelis fault.

Israel have many times sat back and done nothing while Hamas or previously the PLO continued to attack Israel targeting specifically civilians.
Hamas is on record as saying that they will not be satisfied until Israel no longer exists.

I would appreciate it if you did not misrepresent me.
Nothing to do with "He started it" and everything to do with defending against someone who will not stop taking swings, no matter how many free punches the other guy allows before hitting back.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

The Fundamental Top 500IFB1000 The Fundamental Top 500