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Way Of Life - Friday Church News Notes, Volume 15, Issue 32


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#1 RSS Robot

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 12:16 AM

In brief, the tips were (1) Live and let live, (2) Give of yourself to others, (3) Proceed calmly in life, (4) Have a healthy sense of leisure, (5) Sundays should be holidays “because “Sunday is for family,” (6) Find innovative ways to create dignified jobs for young people, (7) Respect and take care of nature, (8) Stop being negative, (9) Don’t proselytize; respect others’ beliefs, (10) Work for peace.

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#2 John81

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:40 PM

I don't necessarily think how much some of his material seems to be used or not; nor who is or isn't subscribing to O Timothy is a good gauge of fundamentalism.

 

Myself, I own some of Cloud's stuff and it keeps good and is easy to share so there is no reason to buy more. I used to subscribe to O Timothy but I stopped due to the fact by the time the publication arrived, I had already read the information online, often long before the publication arrived. For that same reason I also long ago stopped subscribing to various other publication.

 

I still use Cloud's material that I own from time to time and I still read his stuff online. That neither proves nor disproves anything regarding my stance on or with fundamentalism.

 

Another point as to why it may seem some are less interested today is that much of his stuff is repetitive. The information is already available elsewhere, often he's put it forth before and often in many different articles and formats. Some of the stuff put forth is simply outdated and of little use. For most people today, what Dolly Parton or The Beetles were doing or saying in the 1960s seems like ancient history and they don't relate at all; some don't even have a clue who they were/are.

 

The point he's trying to make is a good one, and I get that, and overall I believe he's correct that traditional fundamentalism (or what he thinks of as traditional fundamentalism) isn't much adhered to today and doesn't have many seeking for it. Then again, the fundamentalism of the early 1900s differs from that of the middle 1900s, the latter 1900s and today. Fundamentalism has morphed and adapted over the past 100 or so years, for better or worse, and fundamentalists are divided over which era of fundamentalism was most true.



#3 Miss Daisy

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 12:18 AM

I used to subscribe to O Timothy also but stopped for same reasons as you. It was same articles he posts in the Friday News update emails I get weekly. I was disappointed in April when I got to hear him speak for the first time and it was on the beat(?) and danger of contemporary Christian music. Old material that I'd read many times before.



#4 MatthewDiscipleOfGod

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 09:37 AM

I used to subscribe to O Timothy also but stopped for same reasons as you. It was same articles he posts in the Friday News update emails I get weekly. I was disappointed in April when I got to hear him speak for the first time and it was on the beat(?) and danger of contemporary Christian music. Old material that I'd read many times before.

 

Yet I see IFB churches still turning to CCM, Calvinism and modern Bibles. He needs to keep speaking since there are those that still need to listen. Most IFB leaders are ignorant of the issues and would benefit to listen to what brother Cloud has to say.



#5 John81

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 11:48 AM

I don't think anyone is saying much of what he says isn't needed, more that there is a time and place for specific messages. In a church or meeting where the attendees are solid on a matter (take your CCM example), and all are in agreement CCM is bad, not to be tolerated in any form and they know the reasons why they hold that position, preaching a message on this is beyond redundant.

 

Now, go to another church or conference where folks don't know about these things or they may know some but are adapting or adopting CCM anyway, and there is an audience that for that message.

 

Also, presenting virtually the exact same message over and over for years, decades even, leads to these sort of messages becoming stale and outdated. Continually pointing to very old songs, no longer current or relevant musicians, music, and people most in the audience haven't even heard of, weakens the message. Some of his material is very much in need of updating. Saved or unsaved, those much younger than myself have no clue about music and musicians from the 50s, 60s and 70s. Even stuff from the 80s is now considered "classic" and younger folks know little of it.

 

At the same time, while it's argued that listening to or singing even a lyrically biblically sound CCM song might lead Christians to learn more about CCM and start listening to it; the same could be said for the practice of continually pointing to certain songs and musicians (both secular and Christian). I personally know of countless people who have discovered CCM and secular music they like because they wanted to check out the music being preached against and see just what the fuss was about.

 

I recall a video made in the 80s or 90s, I think it was called "Hell's Bells", which was a warning against rock music. The video showed clips of rock music videos, put some lyrics on the screen, mentioned the names of many musicians. After this video was shown at a conference many of those in attendance went out looking for that music, which before then they didn't even know existed, and found they liked some of it so they bought the hard rock and heavy metal cassettes and blasted them.

 

Where that fine line between warning and becoming an infomercial for things is at, I don't know, but it's often inadvertently crossed.

 

Essentially, I think the point is to better know the audience so as to present the most needed message to them, and to update some of the messages so they can be better understood by todays audience.



#6 MatthewDiscipleOfGod

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 12:08 PM

John,

 

Truth is truth no matter how much time has past. Cloud speaks on a lot more than just music. When he speaks on things such as Calvinism and easy believism the information is never "old". I agree, sometimes Cloud and others should update their examples when it comes to music. The Beatles though are still popular and there was a concert here in Minnesota recently by Paul McCartney, a former Beatle, who was given positive reviews by some IFB members. Also, a lot of "Christian" artists continue, to this day, to list The Beatles as an influence. When I started posting several years ago I was pro CCM. David Cloud was one of the people that helped me realize my folly along with the They Sold Their Souls for Rock and Roll video even though it was outdated at the time. Sure, some will always harden their hearts and give into their sinful desires but that doesn't mean we stop preaching the truth.



#7 John81

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 12:23 PM

I think we are more or less in agreement. Truth is truth, and needs to be stated to the audience which needs to hear it. Part of our job, if we are a public speaker, is to be in much prayer so as to know what message is needed for each audience.

 

In this rural area country music is very popular. While some of us older folks know about Hank Williams, Patsy Cline, or even Dolly Parton who is still in the business, most of the younger folks have no clue about them. If I try to tell them about the dangers of country music and point to songs these musicians were singing decades before they were born it falls on deaf ears. However, if I talk to them about Jason Aldean (sp?), Luke Bryan or Taylor Swift, they instantly recognize those names, can list off dozens of their songs and fully relate to whatever lyrics I point to from their songs. From there it doesn't take long before we can make the connection between some lyrics and sin and how such has influenced their own lives.

 

Anyway, I think we are basically in agreement, I'm just saying the message needs to fit the audience in the best way possible. Most folks today are clueless as to what a hippy really was or how the music back then influenced them but they can relate to the stuff that passes for music today and how it influences their own lives, their friends and todays culture.






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