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mattbennett

What makes a Church IFB?

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Hi all, I am not trying to start any disagreement, but this is something that I have struggled with for a while. What really make a church IFB? It seems that there are a lot of churches that take very different posisitions on a lot of issues and still consider themselves IFB. Your thoughts are appreciated. 

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4 hours ago, mattbennett said:

Hi all, I am not trying to start any disagreement, but this is something that I have struggled with for a while. What really make a church IFB? It seems that there are a lot of churches that take very different posisitions on a lot of issues and still consider themselves IFB. Your thoughts are appreciated. 

I guess because the "I" stands for Independent.

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I guess since I spent so much time in Alaska I was out of the "mainstream" all those years, with the exception of missionaries and other pastors who came to hold special services for our church.

I said that simply because I have never heard the term "IFB". In the Alaska churches it was always "Independent Baptist"
The first I ever heard of IFB was when I joined this message board. I say all of this so that folks understand where I'm coming from and why.

I would define "Independent Baptist" as simply Independent from any control outside of the local church, to include any conventions, associations, fellowships, or control by any other church.

If I had to define IFB at this late hour of my Christian life I would have to define it this way:

1. The Independent part would be; Independent of any control outside of the local church an individual belongs to.

2. The "fundamental" part would be; a local church that holds strictly to the teaching and doctrines put forth by Jesus Christ, His Apostles and the first church that He instituted, as inspired by His Holy Spirit and found exclusively in His Word.

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29 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

2. The "fundamental" part would be; a local church that holds strictly to ALL the teaching and doctrines put forth by Jesus Christ, His Apostles and the first church that He instituted, as inspired by His Holy Spirit and found exclusively in His Word.

Emphasis on ALL is mine.  Amen, Brother Jim!

Today's contemporary rock-n-roll churches are not of God but of the devil.  They do not strive to hold to ALL doctrine and teachings of Christ.  They pick and choose to justify their loves in this world.

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In my particular case, it was a church that held to ALL doctrine and teachings of Paul.

Edited by beameup
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IFB churches formed around a hundred years ago by those who sought to remove themselves from the evangelical churches which were drifting. Originally "fundamental" pertained to the five fundamentals of the faith:

The virgin birth and deity of Jesus

The substitutionary death of Jesus

The resurrection of Jesus Christ

The verbal inspiration of the Scriptures

The second coming of Christ

Those are the pillars IFB churches were built upon. Being independent, IFB churches have always had their differences whether in slight matters or more important areas. Rather naturally, over the course of time and with the expansion of more and more IFB churches there grew to be more differences which has brought about various levels of division between IFBs.

For some time now there have been various "camps" within IFB circles and some of these fissures have grown.

Some above have mentioned CCM, doctrine and other factors and these are areas which not all IFB churches agree upon and this is causing more splits and such.

When looking at IFB churches a person really needs to check out the church, the pastor, their positions and such before a person can really know just exactly where they stand because simply having an IFB name doesn't give that answer.

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IFB, stands for Independent Fundamental Baptist.

 

Independent means the church is autonomous and independent, not being controlled by a denominational body or hierarchy or headquarters.

Fundamental means believing in the fundamental doctrines, like Deity of Christ, Inspiration of Scriptures, Salvation by Faith alone, Redemption through Christ's Blood, Second Coming of Christ.

Baptists refers to Baptist Doctrine, which would be Believers Baptism only as opposed to Infant Baptism, Baptism by immersion as opposed to sprinkling or pouring. Some would add the doctrines of Two ordinances, Baptism and Lord's Supper, Two Offices Pastor/Elder/Overseer/Bishop and Deacon, the Doctrine of the Priesthood of the Believer.

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IFB used to also stand for the premillennial return of Christ, the catching away of the Church, IE the rapture. Until the infiltration of the emerging rock n roll churches and the reformers.

In addition it used to stand for the prayerful power of the Spirit in witnessing until the infiltration of the emerging rock n roll churches and their easy, repent-less gospel and the calvinistic apostasy of the reformers.

Now they just say the second coming and they just say whosoever will 1-2-3 repeat after me.

Nowadays finding an IFB church that resembles anything in the Book of Acts is like finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

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2 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

IFB, stands for Independent Fundamental Baptist.

 

Independent means the church is autonomous and independent, not being controlled by a denominational body or hierarchy or headquarters.

Fundamental means believing in the fundamental doctrines, like Deity of Christ, Inspiration of Scriptures, Salvation by Faith alone, Redemption through Christ's Blood, Second Coming of Christ.

Baptists refers to Baptist Doctrine, which would be Believers Baptism only as opposed to Infant Baptism, Baptism by immersion as opposed to sprinkling or pouring. Some would add the doctrines of Two ordinances, Baptism and Lord's Supper, Two Offices Pastor/Elder/Overseer/Bishop and Deacon, the Doctrine of the Priesthood of the Believer.

Could you guide us to Paul's Epistles where he informs us (the Body of Christ) that we are "Priests"?

BTW: I'm in an 85% Catholic country in Asia, and I can assure you that they pretty much agree with the IFB "beliefs" that have been noted in this post.  Their "foundational" scriptures are "the teachings of Jesus" found in the Four Gospels (most notably the "Sermon on the Mount").

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1 hour ago, beameup said:

Could you guide us to Paul's Epistles where he informs us (the Body of Christ) that we are "Priests"?

BTW: I'm in an 85% Catholic country in Asia, and I can assure you that they pretty much agree with the IFB "beliefs" that have been noted in this post.  Their "foundational" scriptures are "the teachings of Jesus" found in the Four Gospels (most notably the "Sermon on the Mount").

Problem is, the Jesus that the Catholics embrace and teach is one whose mother is a perpetual virgin and is the queen of heaven who allegedly hears and answers their prayers.

 

of course, their Jesus is not the Jesus that can save..

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22 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

 

of course, their Jesus is not the Jesus that can save..

There are some true believers in the Catholic Church here in the Philippines.  Jesus is Jesus.  There are is an atrocious amount of false-teaching here in the P.I. (yes, even among some IFB churches).  Any deviation from the Pauline Gospel of Grace (through Faith, without Works) is false-teaching. Apostasy was already prevalent when the Holy Spirit inspired the "Gentile Apostle" Paul to write his Epistles...

Edited by beameup

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2 hours ago, beameup said:

There are some true believers in the Catholic Church here in the Philippines.  Jesus is Jesus.  There are is an atrocious amount of false-teaching here in the P.I. (yes, even among some IFB churches).  Any deviation from the Pauline Gospel of Grace (through Faith, without Works) is false-teaching. Apostasy was already prevalent when the Holy Spirit inspired the "Gentile Apostle" Paul to write his Epistles...

Saved in the Catholic church?  If they never come out of that den of iniquity and idolatry, I highly doubt the authenticity of their Salvation.

2 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV) 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

2 Corinthians 6:18 (KJV) 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

It appears that if one does not separate from idolatry and idolaters, one will not be received by the Father and will not be a son or daughter.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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3 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

Saved in the Catholic church?  If they never come out of that den of iniquity and idolatry, I highly doubt the authenticity of their Salvation.

2 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV) 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

2 Corinthians 6:18 (KJV) 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

It appears that if one does not separate from idolatry and idolaters, one will not be received by the Father and will not be a son or daughter.

The Filipino Culture's "foundation" is derived from Medieval Spanish-Catholicism.  The entire culture is virtually built around this.  Think of it as the dilemma that a Jew faces when he/she becomes a "Christian" (believer in Yeshua Messiah).  Often the "family" of a Jew will hold a "funeral" for that member, and will consider them as good as dead.  You have to actually LIVE in and deeply STUDY the Philippines to understand this.  

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10 hours ago, wretched said:

IFB used to also stand for the premillennial return of Christ, the catching away of the Church, IE the rapture. Until the infiltration of the emerging rock n roll churches and the reformers.

In addition it used to stand for the prayerful power of the Spirit in witnessing until the infiltration of the emerging rock n roll churches and their easy, repent-less gospel and the calvinistic apostasy of the reformers.

Now they just say the second coming and they just say whosoever will 1-2-3 repeat after me.

Nowadays finding an IFB church that resembles anything in the Book of Acts is like finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

So sad

The reformation was prophesied in Rev 10.  It was a mighty work of God that broke the power of the Catholic church.

Verse 2  The first thing we see is a little book.  About the time of the reformation printing presses were invented and books were much reduced in size, especially the Word Of God.  From that we notice that the reformers were responsible for translating the scripture into vernacular languages, Luther into German, Olivetan with the help of Calvin into French, various reformers, ending with King James into English, and others into Dutch, various Scandinavian languages etc.

Verses 3,4.  The next thing I notice is that the angel tells John acting for the church, to ignore the thunders from the seven hills of Rome, Papal Bulls etc. Remember that when he received the Papal Bull of excommunication, he was shocked as he thought the Pope was head of the church, and no doubt he went and prayed about i and studied the scripture futher.  Some month later, he burnt the Papal  Bull , declaring it to be the execrable bull of Antichrist.  he coiuld not have said that unless it was revealed to him from the scriptures. Along with that he burnt the canons and laws of the RCC.  At the same time he excommunicated the Pope. A complete fulfillment of those verses.

Verses 8-10 They had to inwardly digest the Word of God and this resulted in a revival of gospel preaching in

Verse 11  And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

The gospel was preached again "before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."  From that time Luther rejected all the honours of the RCC and just claimed the title of Evangelist.

Chapter 11 verses 1-2, Again we see the excommunication of those who refused to come out of the RCC.
 

I repeat, the reformation was a mighty work of God. One might say the greatest revival of all time.  

 

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6 hours ago, beameup said:

The Filipino Culture's "foundation" is derived from Medieval Spanish-Catholicism.  The entire culture is virtually built around this.  Think of it as the dilemma that a Jew faces when he/she becomes a "Christian" (believer in Yeshua Messiah).  Often the "family" of a Jew will hold a "funeral" for that member, and will consider them as good as dead.  You have to actually LIVE in and deeply STUDY the Philippines to understand this.  

But the Jew comes out of that culture into the church.  I knew a Jew around here who became a Christian and his family held a funeral for him He became a member of the church.  After his demise I heard that later he and his parents were reconciled but he never told me that.  I was speaking to him once and he mentioned the dead sea scrolls.  He had some prints of them in the notes in the rear of his bible, and he translated one for me. It was more or less word for word with the KJV.

 

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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

So sad

The reformation was prophesied in Rev 10.  It was a mighty work of God that broke the power of the Catholic church.

Verse 2  The first thing we see is a little book.  About the time of the reformation printing presses were invented and books were much reduced in size, especially the Word Of God.  From that we notice that the reformers were responsible for translating the scripture into vernacular languages, Luther into German, Olivetan with the help of Calvin into French, various reformers, ending with King James into English, and others into Dutch, various Scandinavian languages etc.

Verses 3,4.  The next thing I notice is that the angel tells John acting for the church, to ignore the thunders from the seven hills of Rome, Papal Bulls etc. Remember that when he received the Papal Bull of excommunication, he was shocked as he thought the Pope was head of the church, and no doubt he went and prayed about i and studied the scripture futher.  Some month later, he burnt the Papal  Bull , declaring it to be the execrable bull of Antichrist.  he coiuld not have said that unless it was revealed to him from the scriptures. Along with that he burnt the canons and laws of the RCC.  At the same time he excommunicated the Pope. A complete fulfillment of those verses.

Verses 8-10 They had to inwardly digest the Word of God and this resulted in a revival of gospel preaching in

Verse 11  And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

The gospel was preached again "before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."  From that time Luther rejected all the honours of the RCC and just claimed the title of Evangelist.

Chapter 11 verses 1-2, Again we see the excommunication of those who refused to come out of the RCC.
 

I repeat, the reformation was a mighty work of God. One might say the greatest revival of all time.  

 

One who is completely WRONG might say this Invicta. The actual reality is that reformers fail to understand that the real Church DID exist from the 3rd through the 15th centuries. Christ's church was never, ever under the bondage of satan's false church. A political revolution perhaps, a revival - hardly.

All the reformation really did was take man worship from the pope and his priests to protestant heroes whom are questionable from a Bible standpoint at best. Even after this reformation, the real church remained persecuted by these protestants. Protestants have been from their beginnings until now simply the religious lost, they just don't want to worship a man in a dress, they prefer to worship men in robes.

A real Christian needs no human hero, only Christ. Burn your hero books friend and stick to the Bible

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12 hours ago, beameup said:

Could you guide us to Paul's Epistles where he informs us (the Body of Christ) that we are "Priests"?

BTW: I'm in an 85% Catholic country in Asia, and I can assure you that they pretty much agree with the IFB "beliefs" that have been noted in this post.  Their "foundational" scriptures are "the teachings of Jesus" found in the Four Gospels (most notably the "Sermon on the Mount").

What I mean by that, is that the believer does not need to go through a priest to get to God, because in one of the epistles to Timothy, Paul states that Christ is the only mediator between God and man.

The idea is that each believer has access to God through Jesus Christ, there is no need for any priesthood such as what the Catholic Church. has. I can pray directly to God through Jesus Christ, I Don't have to go though a clergy man, or Mary or some dead Saint. I can have my prayers directly go to God through the Lord Jesus Christ. This doctrine is taught clearly in the scriptures.

I think the Doctrine is sometimes called the "Universal Priesthood of every believer"

Edited by Jordan Kurecki
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6 hours ago, wretched said:

One who is completely WRONG might say this Invicta. The actual reality is that reformers fail to understand that the real Church DID exist from the 3rd through the 15th centuries. Christ's church was never, ever under the bondage of satan's false church. A political revolution perhaps, a revival - hardly.

All the reformation really did was take man worship from the pope and his priests to protestant heroes whom are questionable from a Bible standpoint at best. Even after this reformation, the real church remained persecuted by these protestants. Protestants have been from their beginnings until now simply the religious lost, they just don't want to worship a man in a dress, they prefer to worship men in robes.

A real Christian needs no human hero, only Christ. Burn your hero books friend and stick to the Bible

I don't have hero books, but I do know that if it wasn't for the Reformation, there would be no USA today   It would be just another Hispanic state ruled from Rome..

Edited by Invicta
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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

I don't have hero books, but I do know that if it wasn't for the Reformation, there would be no USA today   It would be just another Hispanic state ruled from Rome..

Even if the USA were Anglo it would still be under Romish rule as without the Reformation Rome would have dominated England and whatever colonies she put forth.

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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

I don't have hero books, but I do know that if it wasn't for the Reformation, there would be no USA today   It would be just another Hispanic state ruled from Rome..

Yes, yes...on that vein, you and I could have been born starving black babies in Africa and wouldn't be on a forum.

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21 hours ago, wretched said:

Nowadays finding an IFB church that resembles anything in the Book of Acts is like finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

I just returned home from my pot of gold where we heard the gospel preached from one of our beloved missionaries and sweet sweet fellowship with the saints afterwards at dinner.  Thank you Lord for my New Testament Church!

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5 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

I just returned home from my pot of gold where we heard the gospel preached from one of our beloved missionaries and sweet sweet fellowship with the saints afterwards at dinner.  Thank you Lord for my New Testament Church!

That sounds great it really does. So tomorrow you will be back after work with your whole family for more fellowship and Bible study and going out witnessing house to house and then again every other day of the week, correct. All your income over your family basic necessities will be donated to the other members that have need too, correct?

I didn't think so.

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1 hour ago, wretched said:

That sounds great it really does. So tomorrow you will be back after work with your whole family for more fellowship and Bible study and going out witnessing house to house and then again every other day of the week, correct. All your income over your family basic necessities will be donated to the other members that have need too, correct?

I didn't think so.

I know of a few churches in other countries like this but none in America.

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56 minutes ago, wretched said:

That sounds great it really does. So tomorrow you will be back after work with your whole family for more fellowship and Bible study and going out witnessing house to house and then again every other day of the week, correct. All your income over your family basic necessities will be donated to the other members that have need too, correct?

I didn't think so.

Are you so foolish to think that the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem operated exactly in that manner all throughout its existence?

The saints at our local church are very generous.  They satisfied my family's every need when I was hospitalized.  They/we give sacrificially to our members and ministries and missionaries and church plants.  Our men donate their time, talents and money at least 1 Saturday per month helping people of the community in need, such as new roofs, car engines, clearing land, etc.  Well, it wouldn't be fair to say it is only the men, the wives and children are there too.  Over 31 missions around the world count on and receive from our storehouse abundantly, and they too plant churches and help the needy.  The members gave sacrificially to replace our old and tired piano with one costing more than my annual salary.  Then sold the old one for more than my car is worth by 3X!  The members give sacrificially of their time and talents in our very own K-12 School and large bus ministry.  Our church has set a different schedule when it comes to uniting, as our membership covers a much larger area.  And her saints love to unite for Sunday School, Morning Service and Bible Study twice a week.  They love it so much that attendance for the evening services differs by only about 15%.  Our choir makes beautiful sounds and our church is blessed with many beautiful voices for singing unto the Lord and nearly as many it seems accomplished pianists.  Their singing never fails to impart a smile and help set my thoughts on things on high.  We are not a mega church, just a small country church of probably less than 500 souls.

The members of our local, visible, New Testament Church know and live the promise of Luke 6:38:

“Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.” 

 

So yes, they are like the members of the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem, except we have cars, air conditioning, probably more horses and livestock, and humbly stand on their shoulders and strive to follow their examples of faith.

If you ever come down to Florida's Treasure Coast, stop on by and experience a biblical, New Testament Church of the kind that Jesus Christ built and died for during his earthly ministry. 

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On ‎2016‎-‎01‎-‎09 at 8:15 AM, mattbennett said:

Hi all, I am not trying to start any disagreement, but this is something that I have struggled with for a while. What really make a church IFB? It seems that there are a lot of churches that take very different posisitions on a lot of issues and still consider themselves IFB. Your thoughts are appreciated. 

Seeing as there isn't truly an agreement on what the Fundamentals are today, basically what makes an IFB is them simply calling themselves one.  In my area we don't have strictly IFB, we are Independent Fundamental Missionary Baptists, as we have an emphasis on missions and evangelization -- each one supports missions and missionaries as well as give out tracts and some even street preach.  In our area, to be considered Fundamental you must believe in the Trinity, Christ's virgin birth, sinless life, death, burial and resurrection, believer baptism, literal 7 day creation, KJV only and Dispensationalism from the pre-mil, pre-trib standpoint.

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32 minutes ago, trapperhoney said:

.  In our area, to be considered Fundamental you must believe in the Trinity, Christ's virgin birth, sinless life, death, burial and resurrection, believer baptism, literal 7 day creation, KJV only and Dispensationalism from the pre-mil, pre-trib standpoint.

That is exactly what the Brethren used to teach when I was with them, except that some assemblies were not KJV only, some were.  The only onethat remains near here still is.

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