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Golgotha

Does IFB Worship the Holy Spirit With the Father & the Son?

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Does the IFB worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son?  If your answer is no, then all following questions are moot because you know the Truth, BUT of you answer "Yes", then you need to address the rest of the following questions.

Does the IFB know that there is no Biblical teaching for that practice at all for the N.T. churches to do?

Does the IFB know that there are scripture on how God the Father wants us to come to Him in worship by?  John 14:6  And that any other way is a work of iniquity?  John 10:1

Does the IFB know that the Father's will to honor Him is by only honoring the Son as John 5:23 cites that when we are not honoring the Son, we are not honoring the Father?  Does the IFB know that John 5:23 is the standard of judgment on all believers as introduced in John 5:22 ?

Does the IFB know that the Holy Spirit is sent to testify of the Son ( John 15:26 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:13-15 ) and so how can He do that except through us ( John 15:27 ) and that has to & must include worship as led by the Spirit in us to do.

Does the IFB know that the Holy Spirit would not lead the believer to speak of Himself to honor Himself & to glorify Himself when His role is to speak of the Son to glorify Him & He can only do that through us in order for the Holy Spirit to be a True Witness of God by His words?  John 3:30 & John 5:31 & John 7:18 & John 8:17

Does the IFB know that this is the broadening of the way spoken of by Jesus Christ in Matthew 7:13-14 as brought in by false prophets as being ecumenical in nature, gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles which was what the Nicene creed of 381 A.D. was when introducing the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son as modified from the creed of 325 A.D.?

Does the IFB know the repentance of that iniquity is to strive to enter through the straight gate to be received by Him? Luke 13:24-30 and even though the Holy Spirit is also God & part of the Triune God, that means not putting the Holy Spirit in worship to be honored & glorified with the Father & the Son, because the Spirit & His words would not lead you to do that?

Does the IFB know that the obedience that Paul was speaking about in Philippians 2:12 is having that mind of Christ to glorify Jesus Christ which is to the glory of God the Father in Philippians 2:5-13?

Does the IFB know that the glory of God comes from glorifying the Son John 13:31-32 ?

Does the IFB know to discern every hymnal and not just sing them because it sounds good when it is honoring & glorifying the Holy Spirit in worship at any time?  Or even glorify God by the "blessed name of the Trinity"?  What was that name that is above every other name that is to be exalted to the glory of God the Father again?  Philippians 2:9-11

Does the IFB know that to be a disciple of Jesus Christ is to seek His glory which is to the glory of God the Father & no other?

I suppose I could just have left it at the first question, but if you did not answer "No," to the first question, then all following questions in regards to reproofs found in the scripture is needed to be addressed in order for your answer of "Yes" to be Biblical.

Just hoping to ascertain by His grace & by His help where the IFB stand in the faith in regards to the apostasy in these latter days where all such movement of the "Spirit" has been invoked by addressing & honoring the Holy Spirit in prayer & in worship.  It is no wonder why when strange things happen, it was done by addressing the Holy Spirit.  

It does not happen all the time, which is liken to the scripture of the devil being like a roaming lion, seeking whom he may devour.  When such supernatural events occur, it would be hard for any IFB member to convince an IFB member that it was not the Holy Spirit when they were honoring the Holy Spirit in worship. 

So by the grace of God & His help, I take Jesus's solution to avoid such an event by keeping the focus on the Son in worship in order to honor the Father in glorifying Him.  Truly, where is the glory of the Father?  It is on His Son so we are to glorify the Son.

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I realize that you're basically unaware of what IFBs are. IFBs are not a denomination. Each church that refers to itself as IFB or IB are self-governing; that is, each individual church operates on their own without answering to anyone else.

At one time, there was a general consensus as to what IFBs believed, but that is no longer true. So in reality, by asking if IFBs worship the Holy Spirit, you may get different answers...depending on which IFB church you ask, or by asking different members from different IFB churches.

I for one, neither worship nor pray to the Holy Spirit; however, that doesn't marginalize his incredible importance in my life, the lives of other believers, nor in the lives of the lost.

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40 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

I realize that you're basically unaware of what IFBs are. IFBs are not a denomination. Each church that refers to itself as IFB or IB are self-governing; that is, each individual church operates on their own without answering to anyone else.

At one time, there was a general consensus as to what IFBs believed, but that is no longer true. So in reality, by asking if IFBs worship the Holy Spirit, you may get different answers...depending on which IFB church you ask, or by asking different members from different IFB churches.

I for one, neither worship nor pray to the Holy Spirit; however, that doesn't marginalize his incredible importance in my life, the lives of other believers, nor in the lives of the lost.

Well, I reckon I was counting on the IFB answering to the Head of the church which is Christ Jesus & His words as kept in the KJV, but I guess my perception of fundamentalism as a Biblical church may even be different in IFB churches.

Thanks for sharing.:)

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Most IFBs would claim to answer only to the Lord Jesus Christ; however, I purposefully left that out of my response, because I don't know if all IFB churches do that. In fact, I would venture to say that some (if not many) don't.

However, many IFB churches do claim to answer to no one other than Jesus Christ, and that's the way it should be.

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31 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Most IFBs would claim to answer only to the Lord Jesus Christ; however, I purposefully left that out of my response, because I don't know if all IFB churches do that. In fact, I would venture to say that some (if not many) don't.

However, many IFB churches do claim to answer to no one other than Jesus Christ, and that's the way it should be.

I agree.

Do you know why some members think I should just go find an IFB church if they cannot really vouch for it?  Seems like they want me to think I need a more personal encounter for my edification in an IFB church rather than get it here in the forum.

Not sure why they would promote that if they cannot vouch for that benefit either from any local IFB church, if there is such a one.

As it is, I am under oppression & a special kind of persecution that is unbelievable as I am unable to go to church or anywhere because of my enemies sowing discord & tempting people to do mischief on me even when I go out to eat, which I try not to any more & I have stopped wearing the listening aid devices at the theatres, because they keep turning it off in giving me air static.  Even this computer is compromised at times as web pages flip all on their own without me doing it. 

Nobody is going to believe it until they go to Heaven to see what the Lord carried me through.  As it is, I cannot have fellowship.  It is fortunate that I live with my folks, but I am blessed that Jesus is keeping me from losing my cool, and helping me to consider this suffering as something I should be glad in since I am seeing Him helping me through it.  I definitely can relate to some of the Psalms.

Psalm 56:1 Be merciful unto me, O God: for man would swallow me up; he fighting daily oppresseth me. 2 Mine enemies would daily swallow me up: for they be many that fight against me, O thou most High. 3 What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee. 4 In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me. 5 Every day they wrest my words: all their thoughts are against me for evil. 6 They gather themselves together, they hide themselves, they mark my steps, when they wait for my soul. 7 Shall they escape by iniquity? in thine anger cast down the people, O God. 8 Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book? 9 When I cry unto thee, then shall mine enemies turn back: this I know; for God is for me. 10 In God will I praise his word: in the Lord will I praise his word. 11 In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me. 12 Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee. 13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?

My enemies may think I am stupid, & the devil would like to press that point to me to get mad after the fact, but Jesus reminds me that He just did not allow me to see what they were doing until I was away from them.  In any event, I am glad because hoo boy.  Living in America where liberty & justice for all is a joke.  I have to die as an American to have Christ in me enabling me to live as His in following Him so He is helping me to be ready if & when identity theft comes or even if I get framed for a crime I did not commit.  It would not be hard for them to do.

I thank Jesus for being my Friend in keeping me as His friend in helping me to follow Him in forgiving my enemies daily & hope in Him for my deliverance at the pre trib rapture soon.

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13 hours ago, Golgotha said:

Do you know why some members think I should just go find an IFB church if they cannot really vouch for it?  Seems like they want me to think I need a more personal encounter for my edification in an IFB church rather than get it here in the forum.

I can't answer for them; however, since we are to be members of a local church, they are giving you good advice. Certainly it's impossible to vouch for all IFB churches; however, to suggest that you find a good IFB church is still good advice for a couple of reasons...

  1. It's better than suggesting you find a good Catholic church, Charismatic church, Lutheran church, Presbyterian church, etc.
  2. The responsibility in finding a good church lies with you or any other person seeking one. At the least, one should question the pastor on what he believes in key areas of doctrinal importance. One should also ask to see the church's Doctrinal Statement/Statement of Faith. If all of that checks out good, then attend for a while to see if they are abiding by what they claim to believe. 

However, as you have pointed out, you're unable to attend church for various reasons...I just wanted to address your question...

I think another reason for the suggestion for you to find a good IFB church is because of the seemingly large amount of areas; in which, you seem to be interpreting scripture to say things that it doesn't say in order to fit within your beliefs. While we agree that speaking in tongues is wrong, much of what you have proposed on this forum are things that I've never heard of before. By including so many passages of scripture to support your view (that I and others believe you are misapplying), it makes it hard for people to address your posts. Situations like this are best handled and addressed in a church or in personal one-on-one situations.

14 hours ago, Golgotha said:

I have stopped wearing the listening aid devices at the theatres, because they keep turning it off in giving me air static

Is it possible that the theater's system might have a problem rather than them doing it personally in order to persecute you? Have you talked to them about it?

14 hours ago, Golgotha said:

 Even this computer is compromised at times as web pages flip all on their own without me doing it. 

You could have a computer virus or malware on your computer. You should read this thread --> http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/24944-for-the-past-four-mornings/

14 hours ago, Golgotha said:

I thank Jesus for being my Friend in keeping me as His friend in helping me to follow Him in forgiving my enemies daily & hope in Him for my deliverance at the pre trib rapture soon.

Amen. Golgotha, I'm not mocking you in anything I've written. From what I gather, you seem to be sincere in your love for the Lord.

Now...before I finish, my 6 year old son is wanting to type something on here...so if what follows looks strange, it's because a 6 year old wrote it... 3:):wub::ph34r:

Okay, the three and three faces were all that he wanted to type.

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4 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

While we agree that speaking in tongues is wrong, much of what you have proposed on this forum are things that I've never heard of before. By including so many passages of scripture to support your view (that I and others believe you are misapplying), it makes it hard for people to address your posts. Situations like this are best handled and addressed in a church or in personal one-on-one situations.

Here in the forum is about as much personal one on one situation one can get.  Plus it gives the other time to research, look up Bible references, for reproof or for proof for edifying one another.

8 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Is it possible that the theater's system might have a problem rather than them doing it personally in order to persecute you? Have you talked to them about it?

For the longest time & I am the only one having that kind of a problem.  The telltale is when the manager said repeatedly that the headphones do not operate on batteries & that by sitting in the middle of the theatre with the front of the head phone pointing towards the screen was how I was to receive the best reception but as I do this, suddenly, I get static.  Then the manager changed her story to align with the guy behind the counter about recharging the batteries, and the guy was acting funny when I looked to see him as he was behind me.

12 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

You could have a computer virus or malware on your computer. You should read this thread --

Been done so many times, I have to consider the possibility that my folks' computer has been compromised as there have been evidence of people coming into the home.  I think they had wi fi the computer as I see this hardware  on it, and probably why they having a big laugh at my expense as I am figuring this out since no virus or malware has been found on this computer, but I shall try this link.  Thanks.

14 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Amen. Golgotha, I'm not mocking you in anything I've written. From what I gather, you seem to be sincere in your love for the Lord.

Thanks.

15 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Now...before I finish, my 6 year old son is wanting to type something on here...so if what follows looks strange, it's because a 6 year old wrote it... 3:):wub::ph34r:

Okay, the three and three faces were all that he wanted to type.

Tell your 6 year old son, thanks too.  :D

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Well, when I said personal  one-on-one, I meant in person and face-to-face so each can better ascertain what the other means through facial expressions and word elocution. :)

As for the theater situation, my guess is they don't know how to fix the problem, and rather than take the time and money to do so, it's easier for them to spin a tale. After all, hearing devices probably aren't used by very many people (I didn't know they existed until you mentioned it and I researched it). So, it's not cost-effective for them to worry with it. This type of thing happens in many areas. Sad, but true.

I do know this, if I were the manager, and I saw the employee mocking you (or anyone) like that, they would no longer be an employee...

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1 hour ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Well, when I said personal  one-on-one, I meant in person and face-to-face so each can better ascertain what the other means through facial expressions and word elocution. :)

As for the theater situation, my guess is they don't know how to fix the problem, and rather than take the time and money to do so, it's easier for them to spin a tale. After all, hearing devices probably aren't used by very many people (I didn't know they existed until you mentioned it and I researched it). So, it's not cost-effective for them to worry with it. This type of thing happens in many areas. Sad, but true.

I do know this, if I were the manager, and I saw the employee mocking you (or anyone) like that, they would no longer be an employee...

In a christian church, a rebuke would be appropriate, but if unrepentant, then an excommunication whereas as in a place of an employment, a week's suspension without pay with an option to end that suspension pending an apology may be given to the employee as a chance to repent, otherwise, the employee would just look for another job while on suspension, but eventually he or she would be considered terminated after that week's suspension due to the lack of the apology.

Upon returning after having given what is believed to be a heartfelt apology, if the employee does that particular offense again, then termination is required for such a person to have the proper motivation to not to do that at the next's job.

I think the Lord would lead me to do that, but as it is, it is moot since I am not a manager.

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An important thing you need to understand about "IFB's" is we are Independent from one another-there is no ruling board, save the individual, local church, and ideally, they answer to none but Jesus Christ-no fellowship, no board. So when you lump all IFB's as a group, that can be ineffective. There are IFB churches I agree with across the board, some I would not darken the door with my presence. SO when someone says to find a good IFB church to be a part of I would agree, but especially with the 'good' part. One must do their homework.

That being said, do we worship the Spirit? Well, in a sense, when we worship Jesus Christ, we are worshipping the Spirit, because the Spirit is as much God as Jesus Christ or the Father, so He receives worship in proxy, for lack of a better word right now. But I don't pray to the Spirit because we are told to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus.

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If anything, the average IFB church "underplays" the Holy Spirit, not ascribes Him too much glory and honour.

If you read this site that fact becomes obvious. The Holy Spirit is rarely mentioned on this site in the ways you describe.

Don't get me wrong here - the Holy Spirit is so overplayed in so many "churches" today that He is given a role and position even above the Father on some cases.

 

However, IFB churches and Pastors tend to err on the side of a lack of recognition, rather than over-recognition. (Note: this is a generalisation).

 

I have heard it said that the "Baptist Trinity" is actually more like a 2.5 than a 3.

In that respect a charismatic trinity would be more like a 3.9.

They hold the Holy Spirit as prime, and this is not biblical.

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