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Wmccarthy99

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Can someone please help me? I have been have many doubts about my salvation for many months now. All these thought go through my head: was my repentance real? did I really put ALL my trust in the blood of Jesus Christ? Is it now impossible for me to repent?. Quite honestly sometimes I don't know how much longer I can hold on. When I try to overcome these doubts by remembering my testimony, I really wonder if it was real or not. I'll try to make it short but it goes like this.

I was camping with a bunch of people I didn't really know about 4 years ago, I drank a bunch of psychedelic cool-aid. I went through many hours of what can only be described as demonic torment, while bathing in a tub of my own iniquity. It was at the end of a 6 month long hitchhiking trip across america and I had been picked up by alot of Christians along the way who shared the Gospel with me. During this trip it all just hit me and this was the first time in my life I really was hit by the reality of sin. Anyways this went on for hours and hours, and eventually I just kind of gave up struggling and admitted to myself that I just deserved to die and that was that. everything went black, then I saw a really bright light. I just immediately knew that God was real and Jesus Christ was the way to heaven, and the only other place to go was hell. I knew it and I just felt really bad, like " how could I have ever done this to someone so pure and loving and undeserving" I figured "man I really messed up, I took the wrong path, now I'm doomed". Then it was almost like something just told me that It's not too late at all and this is the whole message of the Gospel and I believed it. Then I heard a girl say to me "come into the light brother" and I snapped out of it. I don't know if the light really was God or just someone shining a flash light directly into my face, and the girl was probably just some hippy that was trying to help me off the ground, but what went on in my thoughts and heart was incredibly real.I don't remember what happened right after this because I was still unbelievably high but I remember i even cursed God and started believing in some weird occultish things like astrology that same night. I never told anyone who was there what happened.  Anyways ever since this happened the way I viewed life was completely changed, I didn't want to forsake the lifestyle I was living in, but I was always fighting against this moral conviction that it was wrong and Christ was the way. I lived a life of complete sin and even at one point wanted this conviction to go away so I could be just happy doing what I was doing, I even remember at one point thinking "I don't care I want to live this way, I want to live for this evil way." I still knew how wrong I was,and there was a point in my life when I tried to separate myself from that lifestyle and I would at times pray to God when I was in desperate need of help, and it seemed that every time he answered. at one point I even was given a King James New Testament from a church and I would read it every once in a while but I couldn't understand it very well. 

One day (3 years later) I just admitted that Jesus Christ was the way and I needed to live for Him and turn from my sin. Ever since then I have had a very "works righteous" approach to everything. I eventually found about how this is wrong, but it's just kind of ingrained in me and hard to shake.

Anyways, I doubt I'm saved really. And that worries me, but what really worries me was when I found out about verses 4-6 in Hebrews 6. I worry that I'm what Paul was talking about, one who tasted the good word of God, I was enlightened and tasted of the powers of things to come, but I turned away and even made a vow that this was what I wanted. I read the bible all the time and pray daily in hopes of hope, but I think sometimes that God is done with me and I just can't ever genuinely repent again. That guilty remorse I had that night was soo real, and It's just crazy because when I read about true repentence it fits into exactly what I felt, and I had never heard of what true repentence was before. It was sooo real.

I just need to know if there is any scripture anywhere that can help me, I'm either not yet saved, doomed with no hope, or at a really hard time with my walk with Chriist, and I hope it's either the first or the latter. Help?

 

 

Edited by Wmccarthy99
removed an unneeded sentence

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Thanks for the honest post Wmccarthy99

Your experience is common for many people, including believers.

Someone thinks they were saved past tense.. and then they get into a period of sin, even bad sin.  They don't 'feel' close to God.  They feel like they are just like any one else in the world.  

I don't know if this is you, but know that this is common.

These thoughts and experiences though, don't mean you weren't saved before.  If you had entrusted your salvation with Jesus.. along the lines of acknowledging you are a sinner and need deliverance.. then Jesus would have responded in kind.  You would have been given eternal life.

Remember John 3:16---For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 

Remember Romans 10:9-10----

(Rom 10:9)  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

(Rom 10:10)  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

(Rom 10:11)  For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
 

Remember John 10:28-

(Joh 10:28)  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

(Joh 10:29)  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
 

Remember John 5:24-Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

Now put these verses alongside Hebrews 6.

 

Hebrews 6 isn't about someone saved losing eternal life.. or someone not saved to begin with.  

 

it IS about someone who is saved.. converted.. not being able to use animal sacrifices or self righteous works to please God.  

They can't be renewed to repentance.. because they already repented at being given eternal life!

'Fall away' in this verse.. doesn't mean 'lose eternal life'.. it just means 'struggle with sin' or 'distance from God'

Are you honestly going to call someone who- has  'tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,', ' And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, ' --- not saved?

Added to this--

The context of Hebrews is about believers going on to maturity and not going back to learn the basic elementary principles of the faith of Christ.  So therefore Hebrews 6 is about the same thing.

About believers going on to maturity..being faithful.  Not about anything else.

You gotta keep Hebrews alongside other verses about eternal salvation from the bible. It doesn't stand alone. The whole thing is one great jigsaw that is in complete harmony.


 

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, 360watt said:

 

Thanks for the honest post Wmccarthy99

Your experience is common for many people, including believers.

Someone thinks they were saved past tense.. and then they get into a period of sin, even bad sin.  They don't 'feel' close to God.  They feel like they are just like any one else in the world.  

I don't know if this is you, but know that this is common.

These thoughts and experiences though, don't mean you weren't saved before.  If you had entrusted your salvation with Jesus.. along the lines of acknowledging you are a sinner and need deliverance.. then Jesus would have responded in kind.  You would have been given eternal life.

 

Thanks for responding 360 watt, and this gives me a little encouragement to hear that others go through this as well. I definately acknowledged my sin, actually felt sorrowful over it and believed that Jesus Christ could still save me, that's about as far as it went. I only finally made a confession to my mom that I believed in Him probably months later. I believed for a while, but went back to my old ways pretty much immediately

Recently I've realized I never really understood how one becomes saved. I knew you had to place your faith in Christ, but because of ignorance and false teachings I've thought that there was always something added to it like "commit your life to Christ" or "surrender everything to Him". 

There's a couple reasons I believe that Hebrews 6:4-8 is talking about non believers

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

 

The main reason being verse 8. I don't believe anyone who has been born again will be rejected, no matter how bad they sin. Also, the quick lesson of Esau in Hebrews 12:17

17: For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 

As to being partakers of the Holy Spirit, isn't King Saul an example of this? He prophesied, and later God took away His Spirit and sent him a spirit of distress. Just my two cents though.

I have heard that Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about someone who falls away in unbelief so badly that they never even want to come back, but I don't find that very convincing. The story of Jacob and Esau fits in so perfectly, the ridiculous trade of his inheritance for a bowl of soup, and later regretting it greatly,but not able to repent.

 

Edited by Wmccarthy99
spelling correction

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Hebrews 6:4-6 teaches eternal life and that one cannot lose their salvation, it's an example of their never possessing it.  However, this is meat and you need milk right now young lad.

 

First, never make decisions or trust in emotions when you're tired or not of sound mind, such as when you were on drugs.

If you have in your heart made repentance towards God, meaning you realize that you're a guilty sinner and deserving of eternal hell and are sorry than that is biblical repentance for salvation.  The other side of the coin is that you turn from sin towards faith in Jesus Christ.  You trust in Christ alone with faith alone, not of works, for your best works are as filthy rags.  At the moment of salvation you're a new creature with a new heart and new desires and forever indwelt by the Holy Spirit.  You rely not on your own understanding, heart or feelings but rely on the Word of God.  If you've made biblical repentance towards God and put your faith in Jesus Christ, you have eternal life.

The Lord saved me from my sins on June 13, 2007.  I had to look that date up years later as I did not want to forget.  At first I knew there was something different but didn't see much change at first.  I was a broken down sinner reveling in everything bad and little good.  Slowly, very slowly I learned to listen to the promptings of the Holy Ghost, and without other Christians to guide me, continued on in error for three more years.  Those tv evangelists and shows threw me way off track as did the NIV bible the clerk at the christian book store recommended.  It took me three years to learn how to pray and listen!  Three years until I learned that my daily sins required repentance and that God literally turns his face away from me when I sin and does not hear my prayers.  That explains why I would go months sometimes without my feeling that I'd heard from the Lord.  However, the Holy Ghost quickly burdened my heart to control my finances, to tithe and as I learned to listen, the right bible and the right kind of church.  I've also learned that as I chasten my children when they do wrong, the Lord chastens me!  I hate it but accept it because he loves me.

Have you been down the Romans Road?  Hide these verses in your heart:

 

  

From “them that perish” to “them that are saved”

 

 

 

 

 

I – Our Hearts

 

 

 

 

 

“If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:” - Psalms 66:18

 

 

 

 

 

“He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.” – Proverbs 28:26

 

 

 

 

 

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” - Jeremiah 17:9

 

 

 

 

 

II – Traits of the Unbeliever

 

 

 

 

 

“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.” – Proverbs 1:7

 

 

 

 

 

“The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.” - Proverbs 10:8

 

 

 

 

 

“Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.” - Proverbs 15:10

 

 

 

 

 

“He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.” – Matthew 10:37

 

 

 

 

 

“He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.” John 14:24

 

 

 

 

 

“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.” - 1 Corinthians 1:18

 

 

 

 

 

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” - 1 Corinthians 2:14

 

 

 

 

 

“Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.” - 1 Corinthians 3:18

 

 

 

 

 

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” - Colossians 2:8

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

III – The Word of God

 

 

 

 

 

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” – Matthew 24:35

 

 

 

 

 

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

 

The same was in the beginning with God.  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.  In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 

 

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.  There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.  The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.  He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.  That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.  He came unto his own, and his own received him not.  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.  John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.  And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.  For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” - John 1:1-17

 

 

 

 

 

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” John 14:23

 

 

 

 

 

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” - 2 Timothy 3:16-17

 

 

 

 

 

“But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.” – 1 Peter 1:25

 

 

 

 

 

“For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” – 2 Peter 1:21

 

 

 

 

 

“But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.” – 1 John 2:27

 

 

 

 

 

IV – Works

 

 

 

 

 

“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” - Isaiah 64:6

 

 

 

 

 

“They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” - Romans 3:12

 

 

 

 

 

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” - Romans 3:23

 

 

 

 

 

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” - Romans 6:23

 

 

 

 

 

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:  Not of works, lest any man should boast.” - Ephesians 2:8-9

 

 

 

 

 

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” – James 2:10

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

V – The Gospel

 

 

 

 

 

“Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

 

 


By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

 

 


For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

 

 


And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” – 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

VI – Biblical Salvation

 

 

 

 

 

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.” - Matthew 6:33

 

 

 

 

 

“…I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” – Matthew 9:13

 

 

 

 

 

“…repent ye, and believe the gospel.” – Mark 1:15

 

 

 

 

 

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” – Luke 13:3

 

 

 

 

 

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” – John 3:3

 

 

 

 

 

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” – John 3:36

 

 

 

 

 

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” – John 14:6

 

 

 

 

 

“Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.” - Acts 20:21

 

 

 

 

 

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” - Romans 6:23

 

 

 

 

 

“For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
 

 

 

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
 

 

 

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
 

 

 

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:10-13

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Romans Road

 

 

 

 

 

“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” – Romans 3:10

 

 

 

 

 

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” – Romans 3:23

 

 

 

 

 

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” – Romans 6:23

 

 

 

 

 

“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” – Romans 5:8

 

 

 

 

 

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” – Romans 10:9

 

 

 

 

 

VII – Believer’s Responsibility

 

 

 

 

 

“And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.” – Mark 12:30-31

 

 

 

 

 

“Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.  And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” – Matthew 28:16-20

 

 

 

 

 

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” – Mark 16:15-16

 

 

 

 

 

“If ye love me, keep my commandments.” John 14:15

 

 

Edited by swathdiver

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16 hours ago, Wmccarthy99 said:

Thanks for responding 360 watt, and this gives me a little encouragement to hear that others go through this as well. I definately acknowledged my sin, actually felt sorrowful over it and believed that Jesus Christ could still save me, that's about as far as it went. I only finally made a confession to my mom that I believed in Him probably months later. I believed for a while, but went back to my old ways pretty much immediately

Recently I've realized I never really understood how one becomes saved. I knew you had to place your faith in Christ, but because of ignorance and false teachings I've thought that there was always something added to it like "commit your life to Christ" or "surrender everything to Him". 

There's a couple reasons I believe that Hebrews 6:4-8 is talking about non believers

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

 

The main reason being verse 8. I don't believe anyone who has been born again will be rejected, no matter how bad they sin. Also, the quick lesson of Esau in Hebrews 12:17

17: For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 

As to being partakers of the Holy Spirit, isn't King Saul an example of this? He prophesied, and later God took away His Spirit and sent him a spirit of distress. Just my two cents though.

I have heard that Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about someone who falls away in unbelief so badly that they never even want to come back, but I don't find that very convincing. The story of Jacob and Esau fits in so perfectly, the ridiculous trade of his inheritance for a bowl of soup, and later regretting it greatly,but not able to repent.

 

 

There is a key point here that you put in your post..

Eternal salvation isn't 'commiting your life to Christ' or 'Surrendering everything to Him'

This is very true!

It's pure and simply.. praying to Jesus our Saviour.. God, out of conviction on the soul ... along the lines of 'God have mercy upon me, a sinner!'

Romans 10:-- 'confess with thy mouth..confession is made unto salvation..'

That isn't something that happens later in life.. it happens there at the moment of being saved.  It's a once off, instant act on the part of Jesus to the sinner who is under conviction and receives Jesus as their Saviour.

The 'sinners prayer' may not be term actually in the bible.. but it is definitely in harmony with scripture such as Romans 10.  

Many people think it is as bogus idea.. mainly calvinists or works for salvationists..  what they don't realise is the salvation is coming out conviction from the Holy Spirit first on the sinner.. who then receives the free gift of eternal life. 

The salvation isn't coming from the sinner..  only the choice to believe.

 

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4 hours ago, 360watt said:

There is a key point here that you put in your post..

Eternal salvation isn't 'commiting your life to Christ' or 'Surrendering everything to Him'

This is very true!

It's pure and simply.. praying to Jesus our Saviour.. God, out of conviction on the soul ... along the lines of 'God have mercy upon me, a sinner!'

Romans 10:-- 'confess with thy mouth..confession is made unto salvation..'

That isn't something that happens later in life.. it happens there at the moment of being saved.  It's a once off, instant act on the part of Jesus to the sinner who is under conviction and receives Jesus as their Saviour.

The 'sinners prayer' may not be term actually in the bible.. but it is definitely in harmony with scripture such as Romans 10.  

Many people think it is as bogus idea.. mainly calvinists or works for salvationists..  what they don't realise is the salvation is coming out conviction from the Holy Spirit first on the sinner.. who then receives the free gift of eternal life. 

The salvation isn't coming from the sinner..  only the choice to believe.

 

At least that's what I've been lead to believe, though again if I am saved I am such a babe that I'm not really one that would know too much. I think what I'm going through I really need to pray hard about and seek the Lord for guidance. I've come to believe that if it was impossible for me to repent I would not be being drawn to him. Even after I went through a period of outright rebellion against Him and kinda settled down, I was still experiencing convictions daily, even to the point that when I was facing stressful times in my life because of worldly problems their was a peace knowing that Jesus was so much more than that. The Lord is wonderful, I just need to trust that and stop fussing. Thank you for helping out 360watt. 

God Bless.

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No man can tell you if you are saved or not William. Salvation is the most intensely personal thing a person can experience. The assurance of salvation in anyone comes only from God's Holy Spirit, directly to the heart of the believer.

 Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 
 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 
 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 
 17 ¶ And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
  

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No one can tell you if you're saved or not unless you explicitly say that you don't believe that God exists at all, or are an adherent of another belief system that is pagan. I would recommend taking a look at the life you are living now. The bible says that someone who is born again lives to a newness of life. Their old habits are replaced by a new nature.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)

Now this doesn't mean that there will not be struggles against sin in your life, as the "flesh wages war against the soul". If there's no struggle or repentance, then I would say that this person willfully gives in to sin because they are probably not born again.

However, we ought to examine our lifestyle to see if there has been a change from our past ways of living. Do you desire to live a holy life? Christians aren't sinless, but they sin less.

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5)

The bible says to "examine" ourselves, An example would be if an adulterer and sexually immoral person if still leading the exact same life after 5 years, and having professed to be a Christian, I would advise that person to question whether they are saved or not. Take it to the Lord in prayer.

God Bless,

Daniel

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3 hours ago, swathdiver said:

God's Word is your assurance, not your feelings.

You're right, something I've always been told, and something I learn time and time again.

"If our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things." 1 John 3:20

 the main issue I'm having with that is understanding Hebrews 6:4-6 I get scarred that I'm beyond repentance. I'm praying my way and reading my way through this but ever since I first read that verse it's stuck with me, I'm able to put it aside usually but it always rear's it's head again. Basically I'm in search of assurance from God, or scripture that changes my idea on my position with those verses.

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3 hours ago, (Omega) said:

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)

Now this doesn't mean that there will not be struggles against sin in your life, as the "flesh wages war against the soul". If there's no struggle or repentance, then I would say that this person willfully gives in to sin because they are probably not born again.

However, we ought to examine our lifestyle to see if there has been a change from our past ways of living. Do you desire to live a holy life? Christians aren't sinless, but they sin less.

I do desire to live a holy life, I've been so frustrated recently that the drive is diminishing though. There was a time when I had more of a desire to I would say. I have resisted going back to my old habits, but there is so many sins that are internal and from the heart that it gets frustrating. That's not exactly why I doubt my salvation, although at times it is. I definately don't see any good fruit in my life.

The main issue I've got going on is dealing with the verses from Hebrews 6:4-6

There was a time when I was still living in daily gross sin. I had an air of pride and arrogance and did not want to forsake the lifestyle I was living, though I was being convicted that it was not the right way to live and that Christ is Savior. I desired to put this conviction out of my mind so that I could keep living this way. There were even times when I really believed from the heart that I was living for the enemy, but I still desired that life so much that I kept putting it out of my head. Not long after the peak of these experiences  I tried to stop living that way through my own works and by just being a "good person". I stopped hanging out with those people and moved far away from anyone I knew. Finally two years later I just admitted that Christ is Savior and I needed to live "like a Christian". Since I had never spent time in  a church, all I had to go off was my very faulty interpretation of the Bible, and what I had always thought Christianity was about, which was faith plus maintaining salvation through works. This never brought me any peace or assurance, and after going to church regularly I learned that this was not true Christianity. Anyways I worry that during that time of my willful rebellion I may have committed apostasy. One thing I have to go off is at least after those times it was still like God was drawing me to Him, which gives me hope. 

 

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Hebrews 6:4-6 has been taken out of context by Christians who mean well. An good example of apostasy found in God's Word is found in 1 Timothy 4:1,2, where it reads "many shall depart from the faith". The key words "the faith" is credal, and does not imply having saving faith. The Christian belief system can be referred to as "the faith" as also found in Jude 3, which reads THE FAITH which was once delivered unto the saints. Hebrews 6:4-6 refers to a defection from the Christian doctrine. Moreover, It doesn not teach that salvation can be lost, but rather salvation is a one time deal and one cannot be saved twice. If anything, it teaches that salvation can't be lost because it is permanent and occurs only once. You can't be saved twice because you are saved once and it's a done deal. The fact that you're so concerned about the status of your salvation doesn't sound like someone who isn't saved. Unsaved people do not seek repentance, struggle with sin, desire to live a holy life, and are concerned about whether they are doing things pleasing to God. An unsaved person could care less about any of that. Christians can and do backslide and fall into their old habits at times, but they keep bouncing back up because it is Christ that gives them the strength to overcome sin. I would encourage you to diligently study God's Word and grow in the knowledge of the Truth. The more you know of God's Word, the more closer you can get in your walk with God. After all, the Word IS God. Take care for now.

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6 minutes ago, Wmccarthy99 said:

You're right, something I've always been told, and something I learn time and time again.

"If our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things." 1 John 3:20

 the main issue I'm having with that is understanding Hebrews 6:4-6 I get scarred that I'm beyond repentance. I'm praying my way and reading my way through this but ever since I first read that verse it's stuck with me, I'm able to put it aside usually but it always rear's it's head again. Basically I'm in search of assurance from God, or scripture that changes my idea on my position with those verses.

You have your assurance in the passage you sight brother. Take a look again but read it from a different perspective. This passage is not addressing sin it is addressing unbelief. 

It is saying that it is impossible for one born again to fall away from their belief in Christ else if they had truly fallen away how could they be saved again? They would have to crucify Christ again.

Once born again you cannot turn away from the truth of it. IMO you have demonstrated quite well in your posts that you believe it with your heart and have not stopped believing in Christ's salvation. You are letting satan hold you down with mental doubts. Belief is all there is. Heart belief makes one anguish against doubt, which you are obviously doing.

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I'd like to thank everyone that has contributed to this thread and just wanted to let you know it has been a huge encouragement to me!

3 hours ago, wretched said:

It is saying that it is impossible for one born again to fall away from their belief in Christ else if they had truly fallen away how could they be saved again? They would have to crucify Christ again.

That's the pivotal point of the verse probably, what does it mean to truly fall away? I still don't totally understand it, but there is a reassurance in my heart that this is not what has happened to me after studying His word and reading everyone's comments. These verses come to mind.

"(For our weapons of warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds;)

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" 2 Cor 10:4,5

Edited by Wmccarthy99

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You used the words "to truly fall away", which the bible never refers to a falling away with regards to "losing" ones salvation. Hebrews 6:4-6 uses the Greek word "apostasia", and this only occurs once in the New Testament. Falling away is used elsewhere (not apostasia) in scripture and refers to a defection of the Christian faith of belief system. Nothing suggests that the one who has fallen away possessed "saving faith". Many professing Christians attend their local church for years and ultimately decide to abandon their beliefs in Christianity. This merely shows that they had intellectual assent of the Christian belief and not saving faith.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. (Matthew 13:20-21)

The one who "falls away" does no have saving faith, or what the passage above refers to as having "no root".

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:27,28)

Jesus describes the "characteristics" of His sheep. They "hear His voice", and they "follow Him". This indicates that if you truly belong to Jesus, you cannot lose your salvation or apostasize because you, as His sheep, both hear His voice AND follow Him. Hope this helps!

God Bless!

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56 minutes ago, (Omega) said:

You used the words "to truly fall away", which the bible never refers to a falling away with regards to "losing" ones salvation. Hebrews 6:4-6 uses the Greek word "apostasia", and this only occurs once in the New Testament. Falling away is used elsewhere (not apostasia) in scripture and refers to a defection of the Christian faith of belief system. Nothing suggests that the one who has fallen away possessed "saving faith". Many professing Christians attend their local church for years and ultimately decide to abandon their beliefs in Christianity. This merely shows that they had intellectual assent of the Christian belief and not saving faith.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. (Matthew 13:20-21)

The one who "falls away" does no have saving faith, or what the passage above refers to as having "no root".

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:27,28)

Jesus describes the "characteristics" of His sheep. They "hear His voice", and they "follow Him". This indicates that if you truly belong to Jesus, you cannot lose your salvation or apostasize because you, as His sheep, both hear His voice AND follow Him. Hope this helps!

God Bless!

Should I assume you are attempting to quote me? Please reread my post carefully friend, you are simply paraphrasing me with this post.

thanks

 

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4 hours ago, (Omega) said:

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:27,28)

Jesus describes the "characteristics" of His sheep. They "hear His voice", and they "follow Him". This indicates that if you truly belong to Jesus, you cannot lose your salvation or apostasize because you, as His sheep, both hear His voice AND follow Him. Hope this helps!

God Bless!

A great scripture that really shows the truth about eternal security. "they follow me". I actually just went and saw my pastor. we didn't get to talk long but this issue was raised up when he basically said the Jesus' salvation for and individual is final... as long as we keep walking with him! That sounds wrong to me. I have been do a fair amount of research and praying about eternal security recently because I wasn't quite sure where I stood on it. What the Lord has been teaching me through my reading is that temptations and trials prove us to show whether or not we are true children of the King. I praise the Lord that you brought that verse up and wonder at why it never spoke to me that way before.

I am beginning to think this is where I have to take my stand in why I have to leave this church. I love the pastor very much, and have learned a lot from him. But at this church we play CCM and he reads from the NKJV. Many members of the church use the NIV and other modern versions. There's only a couple of us that use the KJV :(. I have been with them for about 9 months, so I have really bonded with the pastor and most of the members, (small church, only about 30-50 regularly attend) so that made it hard for me to split with them in a peaceable and honest way. It feels wrong to just leave, and though I do have problems with the modern versions and the music, I feel uncomfortable telling everyone that's why I'm leaving. But a strong disagreement on a fundamental doctrinal issue is a different story!

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Your Pastor will probably tell you that you, as Jesus' sheep, can willfully jump out of His hand; or you can, by your own volition and free will, choose to leave the shepherd. But that goes against what that very passage teaches. The born again person has a "new nature", and are a "new creation" or "creature" in Christ. This does not negate free will. I'm sure you've heard the fable about the scorpion and the frog. This is not from the bible but the point proves true about the nature of a creature.

"A scorpion asks a frog to carry it across a river. The frog hesitates, afraid of being stung, but the scorpion argues that if it did so, they would both drown. Considering this, the frog agrees, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When the frog asks the scorpion why, the scorpion replies that it was in its nature to do so."

The believer may struggle with sin at times, and at times backslide; but he/she will eventually overcome their sins through the power of the Holy Spirit. Sin will not have dominion over the Christian's life. It's never, "forget about repentance, you win sin." We are more than Conquerors through Christ, who loves you dearly. Keep fighting the good fight of faith brother. I know that you will do well.

God Bless,

Daniel

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1 hour ago, (Omega) said:

 

Your Pastor will probably tell you that you, as Jesus' sheep, can willfully jump out of His hand; or you can, by your own volition and free will, choose to leave the shepherd.

 

This is almost exactly what I've heard him say. I've heard a number of others in the church say it as well. 

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It doesn't matter how many people say it, it is wrong. I would not call them Independent Baptists if they believe they can lose their salvation.

This is what God says on this subject:

 Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 
 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 
 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 
 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

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It's definitely not an Independent Baptist church. My prayer now is that the Lord to help me find a New Testament church that I can grow with and learn from. And I thank the Lord for all the help you guys on this site have given me with all these questions. I myself was even on the fence about my stance on eternal security, but through His word He has settled my heart on this blessed truth.

Edited by Wmccarthy99

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On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 7:43 PM, Wmccarthy99 said:

This is almost exactly what I've heard him say. I've heard a number of others in the church say it as well. 

Wmccarthy, the best way I know to explain eternal security is that when a person is born-again he/she becomes a child of God. A child can turn against his/her parents, a child can decide he/she does not want to be the child of his/her parents, a child can die, etc. but that child can never be un-born, and a child of God cannot be un-born-again.

Don

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