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#1 "I am chief"

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 07:42 PM

Once Saved, Always Saved!
If you do not believe that Jesus has saved your soul from Hell forever; can you really claim to be "saved" at all?
Which of these two beliefs does your church teach?
Which of these two beliefs are right?
Right now, why don't you ask Him to, believing that He will?
Remember, the very moment that you sincerely repent and completely trust Jesus to save your soul from Hell, THAT VERY MOMENT , YOU ARE SAVED... FOREVER!
ELI

:goodpost:
Good questions to meditate on NOW!
Hand in hand with the Doctrine of Salvation!
The answers are in the scriptures.

#2 Hambone

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 09:07 PM

"For instance, consider an apple tree: it doesn't bear apples to become an apple tree; neither does it bear apples to stay an apple tree. It bears apples because God made it an apple tree.
Just the same with a true Christian; he doesn't strive to live holy or do good works to get saved, or stay saved. He does it BECAUSE GOD HAS SAVED HIM AND LIVES IN HIM! It has become part of his nature. "For it is God which worketh in you to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phil. 2:13)"

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#3 ELI3

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 06:17 PM

Once Saved, Always Saved!


If you do not believe that Jesus has saved your soul from Hell forever; can you really claim to be "saved" at all?

Although there are many different denominations that claim to be "Christian"; there are basically only two kinds of belief about salvation among them.
The more popular belief teaches that salvation is something that can be gained and lost many times in this life. It claims that a person is saved by grace initially, but that there is always the possibility of him doing something wrong at a later time that would cause him to lose his salvation. If he happens to die in a lost condition, he goes to Hell, even though he may have been in a "saved" condition earlier. Because of this, he can never know for sure that his soul is safe from Hell until he has actually made it to Heaven.
The other belief is that salvation can be received only once, and that it can never be lost. It teaches that once a person truly repents and trusts Jesus Christ to save him, he immediately receives everlasting life and can know for sure that he is going to Heaven when he dies.
Think about it! These two beliefs are completely opposite of each other. One glorifies man, while the other glorifies God.
Which of these two beliefs does your church teach?
Which of these two beliefs are right?
Let's see what the Bible says about it. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ ]esus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (Eph. 2:8-10)
From these verses of Scripture, there are three things to consider:

FIRST - THE GRACE OF SALVATION "For by grace are ye saved... the gift of God..."
Grace is the positive side of mercy. Mercy is when God doesn't give us something bad that we really deserve (everlasting damnation). Whereas, grace is when God gives us something good that we really don't deserve (everlasting life).
In the context of salvation; grace is best explained by the idea of a free gift. The Bible says that "the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom. 6:23)
When God offers us salvation as a gift, it is truly an "act of grace" on His part, because He is doing it out of a pure love for us. After all, God doesn't really need us. He could have gotten along just fine without us. "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Rom. 5 :8)
The "grace of salvation" completely eliminates the possibility that a sinner can do anything to make himself worthy of eternal life; because if he could, then God would be in debt to him. In the application of salvation, this would deny God glory and the credit of grace on His part. "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." (Rom. 4:4)
Many people state that they believe that salvation is by grace initially, but they think that it is possible for them to lose it. Actually, however, THEY ARE REALLY BELIEVING A "SALVATION BY WORKS"!
They claim that they must hold on to their salvation by faithfully doing certain righteous activities such as " going to church, keeping the commandments, praying daily, etc." They warn that if one slacks off from doing these things, it could cause him to fall back into sin, thus losing his salvation. But if this were so; then when anyone finally made it to Heaven, they could boast how they got there because they had faithfully "gone to church, tried to keep the commandments, prayed daily, etc." These righteous activities became their "works" that determined whether they would be "finally" saved or not. These "works" would cancel out salvation by the grace of God, for if it is "...by grace, then is it NO MORE OF WORKS; otherwise GRACE IS NO MORE GRACE..." (Rom.11:16)
The Bible says: "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the LAW OF FAITH." (Rom. 3:27)

SECOND - THE FAITH FOR SALVATION "Through faith ... Not of works ..."
While "works" cancels out salvation by grace, "faith" compliments it. "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace... " (Rom 4:16)
Faith is the channel through which salvation is imparted to the soul.
WHAT YOU BELIEVE WHEN YOU ASK JESUS TO SAVE YOU DETERMINES WHETHER YOU RECEIVE SALVATION OR NOT.
Jesus demonstrated this spiritual principle when He healed the centurion's servant: "...as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee." (Matt. 8:13) Also, when He healed the two blind men: "According to your faith be it unto you." (Matt. 9:29)
In salvation by grace, "faith" is trusting God to do by His OWN POWER what He has promised to do (give everlasting life). In other words, SAVE you from what you deserve, which is everlasting damnation in Hell.
In order for anyone to really receive "everlasting life", they must understand and believe that God will give it to them ONE TIME, FOREVER!
Jesus emphasized this principle of faith when He said: "Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire (everlasting life), when ye pray, BELIEVE THAT YE RECEIVE THEM, and YE SHALL HAVE THEM." (Mark 11:24)
If you are waiting to see whether you get to Heaven or not before you can know that you are FINALLY SAVED, you have not BELIEVED that you received EVERLASTING life through Jesus Christ. You are still DOUBTING HIS POWER and are trusting in your own righteousness.
Those of you who believe that a person could lose his salvation, cannot really claim to be saved "by grace through faith". Of course, at this present time you are not in Hell, so you can say that you are "safe" for the moment. But remember, you are not in Heaven yet either; and you don't believe that you will be "eternally saved" until you get there.
Really, YOU DON'T HAVE FAITH FOR SALVATION ANY MORE THAN THE WORST LIVING ATHEIST, because he is not in Hell yet, either! In fact, as long as any person is physically alive, he can claim to be safe from Hell for the present moment. However, IT TAKES FAITH TO BELIEVE THAT CHRIST HAS SAVED YOUR SOUL FOR ALL FUTURE MOMENTS!
Let's just consider something for a moment. Suppose it were true that a person who was once "saved" could be lost again. But suppose this person never did get saved the second time and ended up dying as a lost man, going to Hell; after having once been "saved"? What was he saved from? Was he saved from the penalty of sin? No; because he did not escape Hell. Was he saved from the power of sin? No; for apparently he fell back into sin and died as a lost man. And we know that he wasn't saved from the presence of sin; because as long as we are in this life, we will be living in the presence of sin. What was he really saved from then? The obvious answer is NOTHING AT ALL! He may have claimed that he was saved. His friends and relatives may have thought that he was saved. He may have even tried to act as though he were saved. But in the final end of it all, since he went to Hell, HE WAS NEVER SAVED FROM ANYTHING IN THE FIRST PLACE!

THIRD - THE WORKS FROM SALVATION "For we are his workmanship..."
When it comes to "works" in salvation, most people try to put the cart before the horse.
They feel that if the threat of losing their salvation isn't there, it will lead to lawlessness. They do not understand the perfect righteousness of God or that good works are a RESULT of salvation.
For instance, consider an apple tree: it doesn't bear apples to become an apple tree; neither does it bear apples to stay an apple tree. It bears apples because God made it an apple tree.
Just the same with a true Christian; he doesn't strive to live holy or do good works to get saved, or stay saved. He does it BECAUSE GOD HAS SAVED HIM AND LIVES IN HIM! It has become part of his nature. "For it is God which worketh in you to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phil. 2:13) He is God's "workmanship"; just like a watch is the "workmanship" of the watchmaker.
Remember, once you have sincerely repented and completely trusted the salvation of your soul to Jesus Christ forever, you can be confident that He will never let you lose your salvation. For He is the "AUTHOR AND FINISHER" of your faith! WHATEVER GOD STARTS, HE FINISHES! "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." (Phil. 1:6)
Friend, the Bible says: "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in THE FAITH ..." (II Cor. 13:5)
Maybe, after reading this, you have realized for the first time that, because you had always thought that you could lose your salvation, you have never really had enough faith to believe that Jesus could save your soul one time, forever.
Right now, why don't you ask Him to, believing that He will?
Remember, the very moment that you sincerely repent and completely trust Jesus to save your soul from Hell, THAT VERY MOMENT , YOU ARE SAVED... FOREVER!

ELI

#4 heartstrings

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 11:20 AM

Although I believe in what you call "once saved always saved" I often think about certain situations, such as: What if a man is a strong professing Christian. He maintains and firmly believes that he is saved by grace through faith. One day his family is killed in a horrible accident. He is depressed. He loses hope. From that day forward, until the day he dies, he denies even the existence of God. Is he still "saved?"


If he was truly saved to begin with, yes he is still saved.
There's a BIG difference in a child of God, born from above, and a mere "professing Christian".
But real children of God, have and do sometimes live in unbelief. But it is God who is faithful.
The prodigal son, left his father, but he was still a son.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.


Just for discussion sake: What if a "saved" person starts going to a Roman Catholic church, sincerely adopting all of its beliefs and practices. Is he still "saved"?

(please note that I do not share this board's majority view regarding Roman Catholocism)


A Saved person, born again, Heaven bound with the hammer down can fall into any kind of sin; including false religion. But the Bible clearly teaches that God chastens those that are His and it teaches there is a sin unto death. God does not let His children get away with sin.

Here is one saved man who went after false religion. [bible]1 Kings 11:4[/bible]

#5 Julie L

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 11:32 AM

Just for discussion sake: What if a "saved" person starts going to a Roman Catholic church, sincerely adopting all of its beliefs and practices. Is he still "saved"?


Interesting question. Not that my option matters much, but I would say if a person holds to Sola Fide belief, then they must say that even if a person becomes Roman Catholic they would still be saved. If one truly believes faith can never be lost no matter what they do for the rest of their lives.

As a side note: Catholics don't believe you should live in fear, that would be a loss of hope and faith. But a Catholic believes that if you turn your back on God (denial of God), that is when one losses salvation.
(sinning doesn't loose salvation, it can lead to it no doubt, but it is the denial of God that we choose hell)

#6 heartstrings

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 10:58 AM

Although I believe in what you call "once saved always saved" I often think about certain situations, such as: What if a man is a strong professing Christian. He maintains and firmly believes that he is saved by grace through faith. One day his family is killed in a horrible accident. He is depressed. He loses hope. From that day forward, until the day he dies, he denies even the existence of God. Is he still "saved?"


If he was truly saved to begin with, yes he is still saved.
There's a BIG difference in a child of God, born from above, and a mere "professing Christian".
But real children of God, have and do sometimes live in unbelief. But it is God who is faithful.
The prodigal son, left his father, but he was still a son.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

#7 ptwild

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 11:06 AM

Although I believe in what you call "once saved always saved" I often think about certain situations, such as: What if a man is a strong professing Christian. He maintains and firmly believes that he is saved by grace through faith. One day his family is killed in a horrible accident. He is depressed. He loses hope. From that day forward, until the day he dies, he denies even the existence of God. Is he still "saved?"


If he was truly saved to begin with, yes he is still saved.
There's a BIG difference in a child of God, born from above, and a mere "professing Christian".
But real children of God, have and do sometimes live in unbelief. But it is God who is faithful.
The prodigal son, left his father, but he was still a son.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.


Just for discussion sake: What if a "saved" person starts going to a Roman Catholic church, sincerely adopting all of its beliefs and practices. Is he still "saved"?

(please note that I do not share this board's majority view regarding Roman Catholocism)

#8 ptwild

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 10:31 AM

Although I believe in what you call "once saved always saved" I often think about certain situations, such as: What if a man is a strong professing Christian. He maintains and firmly believes that he is saved by grace through faith. One day his family is killed in a horrible accident. He is depressed. He loses hope. From that day forward, until the day he dies, he denies even the existence of God. Is he still "saved?"

#9 PastorHarrison

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 10:29 AM

To teach that salvation can be lost - is to make the blood of Christ equal to the blood of goats and bulls (Heb 10). It is to say that the blood of the Lamb of God was temporary blood much as was the blood of the O.T. sacrifices..... We of course know that the Blood of Jesus Christ was shed once.....because it is permanent blood and must be shed but once, applied but once and secures "eternal salvation" [Heb 5:9] {not temporary salvation} as erroniously taught by many.

How it can be missed that Heb 6 says IF it could BE LOST, it could never be regained - is beyond me..... it's so screaming obvious once you learn that man is a trinity "Spirit, Soul and Body" [I Thess 5:23] that you wonder if Paul didn't have this in mind when he said "if a man be ignorant....let him be ignorant".

I am thankful God is keeping me an apple tree and not me.

#10 PastorHarrison

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 10:21 AM

"For instance, consider an apple tree: it doesn't bear apples to become an apple tree; neither does it bear apples to stay an apple tree. It bears apples because God made it an apple tree.
Just the same with a true Christian; he doesn't strive to live holy or do good works to get saved, or stay saved. He does it BECAUSE GOD HAS SAVED HIM AND LIVES IN HIM! It has become part of his nature. "For it is God which worketh in you to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phil. 2:13)"

:clap:


Now thats a good illustration - I use one much similar in soul winning, particularly in lost people who claim to be saved. An "apple tree" I tell them, doesn't produce pine cones.... If year after year all I ever see on my "apple" tree are pine needles and pine cones, sooner or later I must come to terms with the reality that my apple tree is not an apple tree at all. It is in fact a pine tree. Stringing apples into it and setting in the midst of an apple tree orchard might help it blend in better with real apple trees.....but in the end....the harvest season will come and there shall be naught but pine cones strewn about under it.... for it was a pine tree all along. Kind of simple....but I find that often works best in the spiritually blind.

#11 heartstrings

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 05:05 PM

Those who teach one can lose salvation must add to the Word of God and deny it's promises.
John 5:24
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,until he sins and loses it and shall not come into condemnation;as long as he lives right, holds tight and endures to the end but is passed from death unto life. unless he passes back again.

#12 heartstrings

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    He shall feed his flock like a shepherd....

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 11:44 PM

John 3:3 "born again" Christians....are children of God. Once a child always a child.... even a disobedient and rebellious child is still a child, even if a disappointment. Children are dealt with according to thier level of disobedience.... even up to and including physical death "that the spirit may be saved" ... John said "that which is born of God (John 3:3 ye must be born again) cannot sin. The flesh can and it suffers the consequences of sin i.e. Moses died on the other side of Jordan for his sin of striking the rock, but after his flesh paid for it's sin, we find Moses standing IN the promised land with Jesus! in Matt 17 because Moses died in Faith! His body was buried on the other side of Jordan, but his redeemed soul was with the Lord! Amen!!!

Eternal security is literally everywhere in scripture.... it is inescapable. The Ark of Noah.... the Tabernacle....
The offerings vs Hebrews "one sacrifice"..... everywhere we turn....there it is.


Amen......that's right. :amen:

#13 Wilchbla

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 11:02 PM

Just for discussion sake: What if a "saved" person starts going to a Roman Catholic church, sincerely adopting all of its beliefs and practices. Is he still "saved"?

(please note that I do not share this board's majority view regarding Roman Catholocism)


Yes, but they will be brought back under bondage as the Galatian Christians were.

#14 PastorHarrison

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 06:50 PM

John 3:3 "born again" Christians....are children of God. Once a child always a child.... even a disobedient and rebellious child is still a child, even if a disappointment. Children are dealt with according to thier level of disobedience.... even up to and including physical death "that the spirit may be saved" ... John said "that which is born of God (John 3:3 ye must be born again) cannot sin. The flesh can and it suffers the consequences of sin i.e. Moses died on the other side of Jordan for his sin of striking the rock, but after his flesh paid for it's sin, we find Moses standing IN the promised land with Jesus! in Matt 17 because Moses died in Faith! His body was buried on the other side of Jordan, but his redeemed soul was with the Lord! Amen!!!

Eternal security is literally everywhere in scripture.... it is inescapable. The Ark of Noah.... the Tabernacle....
The offerings vs Hebrews "one sacrifice"..... everywhere we turn....there it is.

#15 God's Child

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 10:41 AM

Those who teach one can lose salvation must add to the Word of God and deny it's promises.
John 5:24
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,until he sins and loses it and shall not come into condemnation;as long as he lives right, holds tight and endures to the end but is passed from death unto life. unless he passes back again.


Nothing can separate me from God's gift of eternal life except the very thing that allowed God to give me this eternal life: My Faith.

Edited by God's Child, 17 September 2010 - 10:50 AM.


#16 heartstrings

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 01:30 PM

Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Not only that but God is my Father...and I am His son....
When my earthly father begat me, I inherited his likeness, his characteristics, his nature, his wealth, his name, and there is nothing which can change the fact that I am his biological son. I will always be his son. It's the same with my Heavenly Father. When He begets you, you are His son and nothing you can do will change that.

Edited by heartstrings, 17 September 2010 - 01:53 PM.


#17 God's Child

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 02:41 PM

Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Not only that but God is my Father...and I am His son....
When my earthly father begat me, I inherited his likeness, his characteristics, his nature, his wealth, his name, and there is nothing which can change the fact that I am his biological son. I will always be his son. It's the same with my Heavenly Father. When He begets you, you are His son and nothing you can do will change that.


When a person shows no signs of change after being "born again" do you just assume they didn't have saving faith? Or, do you accept their salvation based on their moment of possible belief?

#18 John81

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 05:10 PM

When a person shows no signs of change after being "born again" do you just assume they didn't have saving faith? Or, do you accept their salvation based on their moment of possible belief?


If a person shows no signs of change after proclaiming to be born again that's indication they were not born again.

Scripture warns us to examine our faith to make sure we are in Christ. If we are truly born again there will be marked change in our lives and the longer we are in Christ the more closely we will follow Him.

Jesus said if we love Him we will keep His commandments. This also serves as a warning to any who profess to be saved yet reject His commandments or refuse to walk in them.

Jesus asked many why they were calling Him Lord when they were not doing as He said. Elsewhere we learn that many will one day stand before Christ and hear Him tell them He never knew them before He casts them into hell.

In First John we are told we can KNOW we are saved.

#19 heartstrings

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 06:06 PM


Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Not only that but God is my Father...and I am His son....
When my earthly father begat me, I inherited his likeness, his characteristics, his nature, his wealth, his name, and there is nothing which can change the fact that I am his biological son. I will always be his son. It's the same with my Heavenly Father. When He begets you, you are His son and nothing you can do will change that.


When a person shows no signs of change after being "born again" do you just assume they didn't have saving faith? Or, do you accept their salvation based on their moment of possible belief?


Like John 81 says, the only way I can assume another person is saved is by seeing a change in their life, or the fruit of the Spirit working and bearing witness to me.
I can see a change in their life, but I can't see into their heart; only God can do that. But I can be certain of my own salvation because I was there when Jesus came into my heart, and I know what He did for me. The people in the church house could hear me tearfully cry out "Jesus!" as I hurried to the altar, but only He and I knew that He filled me with His Spirit. So really, they had to see a change in my life as well.

Edited by heartstrings, 17 September 2010 - 06:08 PM.


#20 Invicta

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 06:42 PM



Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Not only that but God is my Father...and I am His son....
When my earthly father begat me, I inherited his likeness, his characteristics, his nature, his wealth, his name, and there is nothing which can change the fact that I am his biological son. I will always be his son. It's the same with my Heavenly Father. When He begets you, you are His son and nothing you can do will change that.


When a person shows no signs of change after being "born again" do you just assume they didn't have saving faith? Or, do you accept their salvation based on their moment of possible belief?


Like John 81 says, the only way I can assume another person is saved is by seeing a change in their life, or the fruit of the Spirit working and bearing witness to me.
I can see a change in their life, but I can't see into their heart; only God can do that. But I can be certain of my own salvation because I was there when Jesus came into my heart, and I know what He did for me. The people in the church house could hear me tearfully cry out "Jesus!" as I hurried to the altar, but only He and I knew that He filled me with His Spirit. So really, they had to see a change in my life as well.

What is this "Altar"?

That is in RC churches.




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