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#121 ltl

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 05:56 AM

Thanks for the link, Keith! Do remember to introduce yourself in the Introduction forum.

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 11:20 AM

Try this website:


http://www.tbaptist....zoom/search.php?


Go to Study-Aids, etc. (margin)....Then, Books and Tracts. You will see Book List, Tract List, and Tracts by Category. Click on Tract List. Tracts (Grouped according to price). You want A Tracts. #A-210 HOW WE GOT OUR BIBLE.

Tract #A-210 Order Form
TABERNACLE BAPTIST CHURCH
1911 34th St., E.L. Bynum, Pastor
P.O. Box 3100, Lubbock, TX 79452

#123 deafnva77

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 12:01 AM

http://www.solagroup... ... _0015.html
http://logosresource...eneva_bible.htm

This is the best I can find..


Those marginal notes of Geneva remind me of scofield bible today in my opinion (not that I have anything against scofield bible , although it does have some errors)

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 10:40 PM

well... back on the main topic... the King James Version was actually somewhat based on the Geneva Bible, although much more so on the Bishop's Bible... just a little trivia for ya.


yes, I read about that. It also had alot of footnotes.

KJV removed them.


Which KJV?

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 09:02 PM

Bump...for Kevin Miller. The information on "spriritual Gifts" is on page 12. Name, Location, Address, Phone #, Etc....


Thanks, Mr. Dude for pulling up this thread. Oh...and, welcome to Online Baptist. Happy Posting to you! :thumb

#126 kevinmiller

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 09:05 PM

Ah, thanks Candle!

#127 deafnva77

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 09:06 PM

well... back on the main topic... the King James Version was actually somewhat based on the Geneva Bible, although much more so on the Bishop's Bible... just a little trivia for ya.


yes, I read about that. It also had alot of footnotes.

KJV removed them.

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 08:38 PM

well... back on the main topic... the King James Version was actually somewhat based on the Geneva Bible, although much more so on the Bishop's Bible... just a little trivia for ya.

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 10:14 AM

I found a website when I was looking for more books on Christian history. It is "focus on the Family" Dr. James Dobson. I did a search, so I will have to find the site tomorrow. Anyway, he was stating that God alllowed the sins of King Henry VIII to repeat the abominations of the Vatican. The Anglican church...according to Dobson's information, is a continuation of the Vatican.

What I can't understand is why we as believers have to question oneanother so much. I realize that people need convincing, but doesn't the lost world make us question enough? I have been asked to "prove my sources" and that is alright. I will do that, b/c I realize that we aren't speaking face to face. However, the last time I had to "prove" myself was in a court of law with my ex-husband years ago. I believe that Satan is having a "hay day" over all of this w/ us Christians. I know that Christ doesn't want this bickering or confusion among the brethren. The KJV Bible is proof enough! My pastor talks about "Spiritual Gifts" and he is amazed at how many people don't know their own spiritual gifts...b/c they haven't been taught properly. I took a "Spiritual Gifts" test upon my salvation (at the women's center)...and, believe me, it is an eyeopener. We can "try" to get along and work in harmony with the brethren if we understand oneanother's "Spiritual Gifts". I am still learning my hubby's strengths and weaknesses. Shouldn't we learn to love people where they are at? Everyone has their strengths to contribute to the "Body of Christ". JMO is all. :thumb

candlelight

P.S. ~ Please don't cast any stones. :smile This is not directed at anyone...just "food for thought".

I agree with you. I'm sure there are many things on which we may not completely agree, but I would hope that any of us on here could have tremendous fellowship together as brothers and sisters in Christ regardless of minor things on which we disagree.


:praise: :thumb...and, Yes..."They are minor things" compaired to the lost souls that need to be won for the Glory of God. :pray How many people are going to hell daily? There are about 6.5 Billion people in the world today... 150,000 will die today... 120,000 will go to hell. :sad :sad... 60,000 have never heard the Gospel. Thank the Lord, Kevin...that you are out in the uttermost part of the world telling them! :amen: We all have our Jeruselum. :thumb

candlelight

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 10:00 AM

What I can't understand is why we as believers have to question oneanother so much.


From what I've been understanding, especially moving from agnosticism (didn't really practice it, just was unsure about God [I think evolution had a lot to do with this)] to pentecostal to baptist, it's because depending on you listen to, there seem to be multiple views of history. That is why most people need sources.


Good morning nymusicman...well, I was agnostic for a period in my life. I practiced nothing but myself. :sad I left the RCC years ago, so I really had no belief system to rely on. Yes, I was unsure of God...but, I wanted to know about anything pertaining to an afterlife. Yes, evolution was a factor, too. :thumbdown The study of education and psychology was where I put all of my focus at a later time. I suppose I am secure now... b/c I feel the prescence of the Holy Spirit in my IFB...every time I attend service. My pastor preaches the KJV, yet he is senstive to the "various" needs of others. He is a "stats" man...and, I love that! He does give credit where credit is due...so, I really admire this man of God. I know that is just great admistration on his part. :lol Believe me...it took me years to get to this point in my thinking. :smile

candlelight

#131 Alimantado

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 09:32 AM

If Anglican and Baptist is the same thing, then why do they still exist as seperate churches? In any town I visit in the UK, there are usually about 10 different Christian churches, each with its own denomination--Church of England, Methodist, Strict Baptist, General Baptist, United Reformed, Unitarian, Presbyterian, Lutheran etc, etc. For them all to exist, musn't each church have a continuing problem with the doctrinal position of each of the other churches? If the Baptist church is the same as the Anglican one, why don't they merge? Or more to the point--why did they ever seperate?

#132 ptwild

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 08:27 AM

If I had said you were ignorant or an ignoramus, that would be name calling. I stated you had a lack of knowledge on an issue. Perhaps a dictionary and an encyclopedia would help.


I love it when someone says to get a dictionary and an encyclopedia, as if those references can explain the context in which one uses a certain word or phrase. Just more condescending language used to deflect the issue. Why not just get a blanket, cover your head, then stick your fingers in your ears. Please. You're an adult aren't you? There's no reason why we can't have a mature conversation about this. You give me one Baptist doctrine that is not also an Anglican doctrine. (I won't limit my understanding of Baptist to Westboro, Kansas, if you want limit your understanding of Anglicans to Concord, New Hampshire). These are two churches that get along great in my area and they, as a pair, are tremendous at spreading the word and light of God. There's no reason why you can't find peaceful ground between the two yourself, if you'd care to learn the truth.

I agree with you. I'm sure there are many things on which we may not completely agree, but I would hope that any of us on here could have tremendous fellowship together as brothers and sisters in Christ regardless of minor things on which we disagree.


I couldn't agree more. I first heard about this site from a fellow church member that told me Anglicans were being slandered here. I've come to learn that it is all just a big misunderstanding and that our differences are so minute as to be petty. I stick around here because I feel God has called me to do something about those misunderstandings. To show that we can all fellowship together. We have the same mission, the same destination. I believe that to refuse to work together, and to strengthen the whole body of Christ, is to spite God. It's to know the truth and ignore it. To feed the King of Lies, rather than the Lord of all.

#133 kevinmiller

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 04:31 AM

I found a website when I was looking for more books on Christian history. It is "focus on the Family" Dr. James Dobson. I did a search, so I will have to find the site tomorrow. Anyway, he was stating that God alllowed the sins of King Henry VIII to repeat the abominations of the Vatican. The Anglican church...according to Dobson's information, is a continuation of the Vatican.

What I can't understand is why we as believers have to question oneanother so much. I realize that people need convincing, but doesn't the lost world make us question enough? I have been asked to "prove my sources" and that is alright. I will do that, b/c I realize that we aren't speaking face to face. However, the last time I had to "prove" myself was in a court of law with my ex-husband years ago. I believe that Satan is having a "hay day" over all of this w/ us Christians. I know that Christ doesn't want this bickering or confusion among the brethren. The KJV Bible is proof enough! My pastor talks about "Spiritual Gifts" and he is amazed at how many people don't know their own spiritual gifts...b/c they haven't been taught properly. I took a "Spiritual Gifts" test upon my salvation (at the women's center)...and, believe me, it is an eyeopener. We can "try" to get along and work in harmony with the brethren if we understand oneanother's "Spiritual Gifts". I am still learning my hubby's strengths and weaknesses. Shouldn't we learn to love people where they are at? Everyone has their strengths to contribute to the "Body of Christ". JMO is all. :thumb

candlelight

P.S. ~ Please don't cast any stones. :smile This is not directed at anyone...just "food for thought".

I agree with you. I'm sure there are many things on which we may not completely agree, but I would hope that any of us on here could have tremendous fellowship together as brothers and sisters in Christ regardless of minor things on which we disagree.

#134 kevinmiller

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 04:25 AM

1 Corinthians 14 doesn't speak at all about propheCy - it uses the word, propheSy, which means to preach or witness.

1 Corinthians 13 states this:

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

So there is at least one passage that speaks of the signs gifts being of a temporary nature. Also, all the instructions in 1 Corinthians 14 regarding tongues fit for foreign languages being used in the church. In fact, there are some references that can only fit foreign languages - you can't learn a supernatural gift (that God quite clearly states He didn't give to everyone in 1 Corinthians 12:29-30), but you can learn a foreign language.

It isn't saying that gifts are of a temporary nature. It's saying that while all of those things will and must cease, love will endure forever. It was placing emphasis on love's enduring nature by showing the temporality of things such as knowledge and prophecy. Prophecy must be fulfilled, knowledge eventually becomes useless, and tongues must eventually cease being spoken. Those verses in no way indicate that spiritual gifts have ceased today. If you believe that that which is perfect is the Bible being completed, then can you tell me which part of the Bible was "in part," which means incomplete or imperfect before John finished Revelation?

I think that claiming that they are foreign languages is a stretch, to say the least. How can you pray in an unknown tongue and you yourself not know what you are saying? There's no way I could ever pray in Chinese. I'd have to learn it first and then I would know what I was saying. Paul very clearly said that he would not know what he was saying because it was his Spirit that prayed. Also, I find it extremely extremely hard to believe that the people in the church were all babbling away in foreign languages and claiming them as spiritual gifts. The proper way to use a foreign language in church? I don't see 1 Corinthians 14 meaning that. :frog

Acts 2 speaks about tongues unknown to the speakers - languages that they did not know previously. 1 Corinthians 14 speaks about human languages unknown to the hearers.

You say human languages and I'm sure you did that to place emphasis on the fact that you believe them to be of an earthly source. However, that is never stated in the passage and is in direct contradiction to verse 2. "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh NOT unto men, but unto God: for NO MAN understandeth him; however in the SPIRIT he speaketh mysteries."

That tongue was not a human language.

#135 nymusicman

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:08 AM

What I can't understand is why we as believers have to question oneanother so much.


From what I've been understanding, especially moving from agnosticism (didn't really practice it, just was unsure about God [I think evolution had a lot to do with this)] to pentecostal to baptist, it's because depending on you listen to, there seem to be multiple views of history. That is why most people need sources.

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 11:37 PM

I found a website when I was looking for more books on Christian history. It is "focus on the Family" Dr. James Dobson. I did a search, so I will have to find the site tomorrow. Anyway, he was stating that God alllowed the sins of King Henry VIII to repeat the abominations of the Vatican. The Anglican church...according to Dobson's information, is a continuation of the Vatican.

What I can't understand is why we as believers have to question oneanother so much. I realize that people need convincing, but doesn't the lost world make us question enough? I have been asked to "prove my sources" and that is alright. I will do that, b/c I realize that we aren't speaking face to face. However, the last time I had to "prove" myself was in a court of law with my ex-husband years ago. I believe that Satan is having a "hay day" over all of this w/ us Christians. I know that Christ doesn't want this bickering or confusion among the brethren. The KJV Bible is proof enough! My pastor talks about "Spiritual Gifts" and he is amazed at how many people don't know their own spiritual gifts...b/c they haven't been taught properly. I took a "Spiritual Gifts" test upon my salvation (at the women's center)...and, believe me, it is an eyeopener. We can "try" to get along and work in harmony with the brethren if we understand oneanother's "Spiritual Gifts". I am still learning my hubby's strengths and weaknesses. Shouldn't we learn to love people where they are at? Everyone has their strengths to contribute to the "Body of Christ". JMO is all. :thumb

candlelight

P.S. ~ Please don't cast any stones. :smile This is not directed at anyone...just "food for thought".

#137 Jerry

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 10:48 PM

I don't have a problem with you calling me names. I guess the problem I have is that instead of answering the question you retreat to name calling. It's nothing more than a calloused way of saying "I don't know what I'm talking about but I'm just going to keep believeing what I want no matter what."


This was my statement: Thinking that Anglicanism and Baptists are the same doctrinally is wishful thinking and shows either an ignorance of one or both.

If I had said you were ignorant or an ignoramus, that would be name calling. I stated you had a lack of knowledge on an issue. Perhaps a dictionary and an encyclopedia would help.

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 09:51 PM

Some good posts there, NY. The Geneva is not a modern Bible and actually predated the KJV. It comes from the same text sources and is very similar to the KJV. In some instances, it is actually clearer than the KJV(nobody stone me :wink ).

I find it somewhat troubling that I'm expected not to trust any "secular" sources for information. In my opinion, this is how cults often are. "Listen to our leaders, they're right and the rest of the world is wrong." That's fine if it's something that is coming from the Bible but I will trust a general consensus on history far before I would trust someone who is most likely to be biased in one direction or another. I'm assuming that everyone who claims that George Washington was a Baptist are Baptists themselves and I can hardly trust them to make a sound judgment when they are the only ones making such a claim.

Also, where did you get that 95% of Bibles come from the Vatican Bible? Maybe from the same text family? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Roman Church first canonize the Bible with the books that we have in our modern Bibles, including the KJV?

Can you post references for your list of spiritual gifts and the reason you left out tongues?

I think you will find that many other Christians throughout history were known to speak in tongues at times. And not just Catholics or Pentecostals. Pentecostals have taken it way way too far, but have we been wrong in throwing them out altogether? This is something else I've been turning over in my mind and trying to view in light of Scripture recently. Oftentimes, when someone grows up in one sort of church their whole life or shortly after salvation, it is difficult to view things as objectively. I have found myself challenged and old preconceived ideas challenged many many times in the last month. I think it's a very healthy thing, spiritually, to really look at things from a different perspective once in a while to make sure you believe what is actually right.

Getting back to tongues, I have always been 100% against them and they always have, and still do, creep me out. I heard tongue-speaking for the first time on Sunday and it totally freaked me out. But then I have to wonder, am I freaked out in my spirit or is it because I'm so unaccustomed to it and have always feared it so much that it comes as a shock to my mind? Then when you have it explained from a non-Pentecostal point-of-view, it makes you realize that maybe the people that do it aren't quite as crazy as you once thought. It was always easy for me to brush over certain verses in 1 Corinthians 14 because it just didn't feel right and I didn't want to go that far in challenging what I had grown up with and believing.

But then I really have to look at it objectively, every verse. The first thing that I realized was that the Church at Corinth was most likely using tongues in an unbalanced way, perhaps similarly to Pentecostals. Yet, Paul didn't separate from them and he didn't even freak out about it. He gave them instruction but it wasn't like he got scared and feared a demonic presence or influence. People get caught up in emotions or desire to have spiritual gifts that are grander than what they might have actually been given. The human mind is an unfathomable mystery. Then again, if it's done decently and in order....then what?

The people that have done it here, and it's not often, have been in fervent prayer with God. From a friend who explained her own experience, she was praying extremely hard about something and when she thought to speak Korean, another language came out that she had no idea what it was. Now, could her mind have been muddled by the intense strain of her mind in prayer? Possibly, and that could be one explanation. But could it have been from God? Again, possibly so.

Why? Because I have yet to see a verse that says that tongues have ceased, or any other spiritual gift. Verse 2 of chapter 14 in 1 Corinthians says that when you speak in an unknown tongue, you are speaking unto God because your spirit is speaking. Then in verse 14, he says that if he prays in an unknown tongue, then his understanding is unfruitful. Therefore, he prays in the spirit and with his understanding. So he's saying that it is better to pray with your spirit and with your understanding, yet clearly states that it is an unknown tongue, a language that is not known. What is it then? A spiritual language of some sort, one must assume.

Finally, in verse 39, he tells them to not forbid the speaking of tongues, under the condition of verse 40 that it be done in order.

This was an exhortation to the whole church, not to just the apostles and it just as applicable to the rest of us.

After considering these things, I began to wonder- why is is that I've never seen this happen in an American church or amongst Baptists that I've grown up around? How is it that so many Christians don't experience this if it is still happening today? But there are two things to consider. The Christians in the NT had much greater faith than Christians today and God will not bless you with any sort of gift unless you are willing and have the faith to receive and believe in it. That's one possibility and not always going to be the case since not everyone receives the same gift. Another possibility is that we really don't know how to pray. The people here pray with such passion that it can make one feel very awkward coming from a background where prayer has always been very sensible and almost mechanical, like you might be talking to your business manager rather than an incredibly awesome, majestic God that gave His all for us and has the power to grant any request.

These are just a couple of thoughts and I would like to hear what everyone else thinks about it. But please, only those who really want to discuss it, threads on this topic have sometimes degenerated into "your a charismatic" name-calling sessions and I don't want this to become that. So let's enjoy this discussion as brothers and sisters. :smile


Good afternoon Kevin. :lol Don't worry...I won't stone you. I know your sense of humor...and, besides I also included how emotional women are...b/c it reminds me of my "unjustified" misundertanding when we first started posting together. NO...I don't speak in tongues. The only 2 tongues I have is one that is from the spirit...and, the other is from the flesh. I "try" to combat my "fleshly" tongue...daily. If you knew my hubby and son...they conveniently slip out of the room when they see I am emotional, again. Note my age: A "delicate" 44 at times. As Archie Bunker would say to Edith: "Mental Pause". Or, as my ex-husband would say..."Women have PMS...and, men have women". I do have a sense of humor. :lol :thumb Although. sometimes I get myself in trouble for it. I hope you aren't offended. Kevin. :smile

Well, as far as "secular" information? I was raised in the public school system throughout my life (except during middle school 7-8 grade...I attended parochial school). With that being said...I wasn't raised without prayer in the public schools b/c Ms. Madeline O'Hare stampeded to the US Supreme court prior to my birth in 1964. Basically, except for some good "ole' timers" I was raised by the "hippie" teachers of the 60's and 70's. Open classroom...freedom of speech, liberal freedom of press (in my gradeschool) that proved nothing but failure. My parents were (my mom still is) conservative...from the Great Depression Era. My 17 year old son has been attending public school since 3rd grade (before that... Montessori School) and, I am not at all pleased with what they have taken out of the history textbooks our children use...I also taught 5th grade in the Cleveland School Sytstem for 16 years...so, I am very familiar with how the "secular" world sabotages our Godly heritage. I have studied US history throughout my life...my dad was a history buff. He took the family all over the USA to site see...battlefields, museums, graveyards, other points of interest. So...at a young age...I was accustomed to the "truth" as it truly was back then....and, I can remember it vividly. My brothers have the historical data that my dad left as a legacy. They are "sentimental" Irishmen. :wink I don't accept the truth from very many "secular" sources b/c I know that it has been tampered with. I will use the word "bias" when taking about the media, and anything that our liberal authors throw at us. Christian History is hidden deep...but, it is there...no doubt. You have to look for it. And, I have! Again, I recommend David Barton...please look him up in the Internet (he is there). Although, they will "try" and slander the man's good name if you let them (the press that is). Needless to say...I don't care for Communists. And, this is where this country is heading. Right under our very noses. Unfortunetly, my son doesn't know the world that I once knew...nor, I the world my parents knew...and, so on. It headed for a big nose dive in the 1960's. The Vietnam War, Free Love...Haight-Ashberry in San Fransico, CA comes to mind here. These lost young people (at that time) were experimenting with LSD. An experiment that was governmental...to explore the other 90% of the human brain...as we only use about 10% (Dr. Timothy Leary)...gone into the hands of a "curious" generation. I am VERY greatful that I escaped that era...otherwise, prior to my salvation...I would have been riding on that roller-coaster...believe me. :bonk: I had no self-control...until Jesus Christ came into my life. Thank the Lord that I only experimented w/ alcohol...b/c the other stuff was unappealing. Alcohol was BAD enough. Now, if you want to start talking about speaking in tongues? Well, I could start w/ the "Beloved Enemy" and what it did to me, and other loved ones...some are not hear to speak for themselves. By the Grace of God I am not 6 feet under like them. :sad

Now, as far as "Speaking in Tongues"? First...one needs to define what tongues is. Go back to the OT...it was a sign to the Israelites for them to believe (obviously prior to the coming of the Holy Spirit). There are 3 Types of Tongues: 1) Imposed by the Holy Spirit. 2) Imposed by an evil spirit. 3) Imposed by the human spirit. Then, as believers we must "Rightly divide the word of truth". ll Timothy 2:15...Study to shew thyself upproved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth...KJV. Next, we need to ask ourselves? What DISPENSATION is it? We are now in the Dispensation of Grace...or Age of Grace. The people of Corinth were close to the Book of Acts...therefore, they were very close to the Jewish people and their beliefs...even though they were Gentiles. There were also certain rules within the church on "Speaking in Tongues". In Chapter 12:1-3...The people of Corinth had an "evil spirit on them" b/c they were cursing God. I Corinthians 12:1-3...Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as you were led. ***Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. *** KJV 1611 AV.

As far as my source for the "Spiritual Gifts". I do apologize...I had posted this in another thread awhile ago...so, I thought that I would be repeating myself. This booklet is called Gifts of Grace - The Character of Christ in HIs People. By: Keith and Marian Yoder, Teaching the Word Ministries. Keith and Marian Yoder...TEACHING THE WORD MINISTRIES...One Mayfield Drive...Leola, PA 17540...(717) 656-4056...(717) 656-4712 FAX. This is NOT from the IFB Baptist church...it is non-denominational in purpose.

On the inside cover: A SPIRITUAL GIFT IS: -a unique capacity...-given by the Holy Spirit...-to each believer...-for service in connection with the church...-in order that the church may grow...in numbers, in character, and reproduce itself in new fellowships.

Many blessings...Kevin, as you serve Our Lord and Saviour...Jesus Christ to the Korean people. They will be blessed with your eagerness, knowledge, and most of all...your passion to lead lost souls to the Kingdom of Heaven. :amen: :wave:

candlelight :bible:

P.S. ~ Please feel free Bro.'s Jerry's or anyone else? to fill in the scriptures, or add or change...I will not be offended in the slightest. I get you guys. You are brutally honest...as I would have it. Always giving us what we NEED not necessarily what we WANT. :thumb That's why I am here at OB...to learn. :bible:


To correct what I said...here. I WAS raised without prayer in the Public school system growing up. Due to Ms. Madeline O'Hare...and, her group of Atheists...I was an unfortunate soul that was raised on Evolution. You know the..."Land of the Lost"..."Planet of the Apes"...sort of thing. This was an injustice, to say the very least. How one overbearing woman can manipulate the US Supreme Court is beyond my comprehension? It also reminds me of Roe vs. Wade....Oh, yeah...that is for another thread. We Americans have done this to ourselves! It is long overdue that we stand up for our God given rights under the Constitution of the USA. Look up what our "Founding Fathers" really stood for, not this slander that they spew out all across the globe. World Wide Web = 666 in the Hebrew language. :thumbdown It has affected us more than any one (except God Almighty) will ever know. Please check out as many sites on what Our Consitution says about "Freedom of Religion". You will find...from the right sources that...this was set up originally so that the state would stay out of the church business. Not the other way around...like they love to make us believe. Sorry, for those that know this already! It is just a crying shame...that we... as believers have let this atrocity occur for so long. :sad

candlelight

P.S. ~ I have a deep burden for lost souls. :sad :pray Don't we all? :wave:

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 04:09 PM


I find it somewhat troubling that I'm expected not to trust any "secular" sources for information. In my opinion, this is how cults often are. "Listen to our leaders, they're right and the rest of the world is wrong." That's fine if it's something that is coming from the Bible but I will trust a general consensus on history far before I would trust someone who is most likely to be biased in one direction or another. I'm assuming that everyone who claims that George Washington was a Baptist are Baptists themselves and I can hardly trust them to make a sound judgment when they are the only ones making such a claim.


I don't think we shouldn't read all sources (eat the meat, spit out the bones) but we do have to remember that nobody (and I mean nobody) writes unbiased. If someone is writing it usually means there is an agenda for writing that information. So there are slants given in documents. Secular sources will always try to make Christians look bad, and Christians will always (and were supposed to) point to just how worldly the world is.

Take for instance the debate between KJVO and those who support MV. I've noticed very frequently that MV supporters will leave out the fact that all their manuscripts came from at least the finances of the Catholic church, or will be bold enough to pump up the roman church as the real Christians. I also notice that they spend more time focusing on how the oldest manuscripts must be the best, etc... Then when I look at the other side of the view most books don't focus that much on where the oldest manuscripts come from but instead focus on the beginning english translators. So as you can imagine for the longest time I found it quite fustrating putting the pieces together because my history pre Tyndale was kind of vague except for what I had from MV sources. And how the new English translations were actually done was vague except for what I had from KJVO sources which stopped at the AV 1611. It is a good idea to look at all sources, but I've noticed that the most thorough history comes from those who are not afraid of it, which typically comes from those who are right.

By the way the person who posted the link to James Knox KJV series, that you so much. I can't tell you the blessing it's been clearing up so much information.

There is one place he avoided though and that is how we got the Bible canonized. And good resources for that one?


ITA, about "most thorough history comes from those who are not afraid of it, which typically comes from those who are right". Again, I am recommending David Barton b/c I do believe he is very accurate, "not afraid" to speak out on the truth. I am in no way related to David Barton...but, I discovered him on Cable TV one night...awhile ago. I heard him talking about how this country would be still Christian-based had we "White Anglo-Saxon" people allowed our fellow African American brothers and sisters in Christ to share in our Christian Heritage. I have learned much from his series...and, since...I know how spiritual AA's are...I found him to be right on in his teachings. He makes everything seem very clear...and, explains throroughly the rich Christian Heritage our country once had. JMHO.

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#140 nymusicman

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 03:33 PM

I find it somewhat troubling that I'm expected not to trust any "secular" sources for information. In my opinion, this is how cults often are. "Listen to our leaders, they're right and the rest of the world is wrong." That's fine if it's something that is coming from the Bible but I will trust a general consensus on history far before I would trust someone who is most likely to be biased in one direction or another. I'm assuming that everyone who claims that George Washington was a Baptist are Baptists themselves and I can hardly trust them to make a sound judgment when they are the only ones making such a claim.


I don't think we shouldn't read all sources (eat the meat, spit out the bones) but we do have to remember that nobody (and I mean nobody) writes unbiased. If someone is writing it usually means there is an agenda for writing that information. So there are slants given in documents. Secular sources will always try to make Christians look bad, and Christians will always (and were supposed to) point to just how worldly the world is.

Take for instance the debate between KJVO and those who support MV. I've noticed very frequently that MV supporters will leave out the fact that all their manuscripts came from at least the finances of the Catholic church, or will be bold enough to pump up the roman church as the real Christians. I also notice that they spend more time focusing on how the oldest manuscripts must be the best, etc... Then when I look at the other side of the view most books don't focus that much on where the oldest manuscripts come from but instead focus on the beginning english translators. So as you can imagine for the longest time I found it quite fustrating putting the pieces together because my history pre Tyndale was kind of vague except for what I had from MV sources. And how the new English translations were actually done was vague except for what I had from KJVO sources which stopped at the AV 1611. It is a good idea to look at all sources, but I've noticed that the most thorough history comes from those who are not afraid of it, which typically comes from those who are right.

By the way the person who posted the link to James Knox KJV series, that you so much. I can't tell you the blessing it's been clearing up so much information.

There is one place he avoided though and that is how we got the Bible canonized. And good resources for that one?




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