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Pensacola Christian College


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#21 Pastorj

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 07:26 PM

They had a very hard time finding a pastor the last time. A lot of good men turned them down. It will be even more difficult this time.

#22 His by Grace

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 03:08 AM

Pastorj, I know a great deal about what your speaking. When a Christian College informs others that they won't be King James Only but Only King James. They are making a statement that is well understood in the Christian community but not by newbie's or the "church attenders" only group. PCC is KJO and another school now has made a stand that they aren't. They have also changed their interpertation of the Bible over the years about like races "dating" like races! First in the early 80's it wasn't Biblical then it changed to" if your parent's give you permission." Now that's not what God's word say's?? My God is the same Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow!!!! Now this other school also allows girls to wear pants at times. This is a disagreement here... I have gathered from reading post on the subject here in the past. However you stand on this issue... I again have a problem with God's Word saying one thing and then later they state it say's another. PCC's stand on not associationing with groups that decided to gather or fellowship with the NOT King James Only anymore is called SEPARATION! The Lord calls for this when Brethren call themselves Brethren and do these types of things. The new head of the other school is NOT the Fundamentalist that his father or Grandfather was when the school began. Do some real research! You are angry with PCC. I know because you told me so yourself. I don't know what happen between PCC and you but I will say it isn't fitting that you seemed actually joyful in their decline over student enrollment! You should be on your knee's praying for a Revival and whatever healing you feel need's to be done with the Administration! To want a Godly Christian College to fall that stands on King James Only and doesn't waver on standards is a precious gift from the Lord! There aren't many left or have you not noticed?? One major Baptist College is now teaching Baptist Brider doctrine!! This concerns me way more than your acusation that Dr. Horton is power hungry. PCC isn't perfect because we are all still in our fleshly bodies. Yes, the church and the school are combined. Do the Pastorial student's only learn from that church? NO! They do internship's or a mission's trip instead one summer and learn and work under other IFB KJO churches every summer for 10 weeks. I have remained quiet and prayed for your heart to soften in this area. Instead it seem's you are becoming bitter. I'm sorry you feel such disappointment or pain about whatever happen but is this really the way the Lord is telling you to handle those feelings? There is still too much of the Lord's work for you to be His man and desire the fall of this institution. Please remember there are students there serving the Lord with all their heart-not all but do they all in your church? They pray for hours, witness every chance they get, call my home with prayer request for people they are agonizing over! I see more service for the Lord out of pure joy for His free gift than I do from about a handful of adults surrounding me that are serving Him. I'm asking you Pastorj, will you join me in praying for a wonderful move of the Holy Spirit in hearts, changing lives and growing the administration at PCC into a institution you would proud to tell people," I graduated from there and let me tell you how the Lord has moved!" Can we do that along with many of the student's? The Lord will provide the Pastor that the the Church and the PCC student's need. I'm just going to trust in His plans! in Christ, His by Grace

#23 Cliff Hanger

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 08:59 AM

Great post His by Grace! I went there for only one semester back in '93. I would have gone back but just couldn't get the funds together. I loved it there. My brother teaches Bible there so I get a little defensive when people put the school down.

I happened upon a homeschooling forum not too long ago and they were bashing PCC saying how strict it was and how it scarred their friends/family members for life or how they turned away from the faith because of the strictness of PCC. I agree that we need to be thankful that PCC has that kind of reputation. The rules are there for a reason, to remove any temptations that could cuase you to stumble.

In regards to the Hortons, what he's doing is between him and God. As long as he's in God's Will, I have no problems with his actions. My Dad's Pastor is close to retirement and over the past several years, the Pastor has gone to the extreme right of how he's conducting his ministry. For example, nothing but hymns are allowed to be sung during the service. His reasoning was if he goes to the extreme right, then the next Pastor wouldn't bring it too far to the left. Did I explain that well? Maybe that would explain Horton's actions. Just a thought.

#24 trc123

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:40 AM

I must admit I've been out of the loop as to current events in Christian colleges. I've always thought that PCC was too liberal compared to IFB approved Christian colleges.

#25 Bakershalfdozen

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 10:03 AM

In response to HisByGrace... All Bible colleges have rules that are non-Biblical, meaning that the issue addressed by the rule isn't addressed in the Bible.

If BJU said their "no races dating" rule was based on the Bible, then they were wrong because the Bible doesn't say that "races" shouldn't date. When they changed that rule, I applauded them. It really was a cultural rule, not a Biblical one.

That was just one example pulled from your post.

And PCC standing against BJU isn't about separation as much as it is rivalry... both colleges have their positives and negatives.

#26 trc123

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 10:16 AM

In response to HisByGrace... All Bible colleges have rules that are non-Biblical, meaning that the issue addressed by the rule isn't addressed in the Bible.

If BJU said their "no races dating" rule was based on the Bible, then they were wrong because the Bible doesn't say that "races" shouldn't date. When they changed that rule, I applauded them. It really was a cultural rule, not a Biblical one.

That was just one example pulled from your post.

And PCC standing against BJU isn't about separation as much as it is rivalry... both colleges have their positives and negatives.


:amen:

#27 bzmomo7

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 11:12 AM

Do you know a simple search on google with words such as "PCC online information baptist" (like if I wanted to know what Baptists thought of PCC or if they were affiliated in like beliefs etc.) would bring up this thread right on the second page? Excuse me if this sounds a bit blunt, but this thread smacks more of gossip than it does anything else. (even if it is factual) If a regular member came on here speaking of inside information within an IFB church and its goings-on many people here would be upset that they need to take their problem up with those with whom it is concerned because they are not available to defend themselves on the board. I know this, because I've seen a thread in the past on OB in which even Bro. Matt did indeed tell someone that very thing. I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea about us on here........we are not a bunch of gossipers, but I wonder if that is exactly how some might view this thread?? The sheer fact that this thread has so many views and few comments already is a little disturbing in itself. Just a thought.

#28 trc123

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 11:14 AM

Do you know a simple search on google with words such as "PCC online information baptist" (like if I wanted to know what Baptists thought of PCC or if they were affiliated in like beliefs etc.) would bring up this thread right on the second page? Excuse me if this sounds a bit blunt, but this thread smacks more of gossip than it does anything else. (even if it is factual) If a regular member came on here speaking of inside information within an IFB church and its goings-on many people here would be upset that they need to take their problem up with those with whom it is concerned because they are not available to defend themselves on the board. I know this, because I've seen a thread in the past on OB in which even Bro. Matt did indeed tell someone that very thing. I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea about us on here........we are not a bunch of gossipers, but I wonder if that is exactly how some might view this thread?? Just a thought.


You do have a good point! My apologies for interjecting.

#29 chev1958

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 11:22 AM

If someone actually has knowledge of a particular situation and warns others about it, is that really gossip?

#30 bzmomo7

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 11:36 AM

If someone actually has knowledge of a particular situation and warns others about it, is that really gossip?


I don't know, you tell me. Suppose you came to one of my family gatherings and I pulled you aside and told you all about my neurotic mil, or my one sil who is prone to ah, lets call it extreme exaggeration and embellishment? To warn you, you know.....after all it has gotten her into trouble in the past. Is that gossip? At what point do you call something gossip vs. giving facts for someones own good? How many people have you heard ask a prayer request for someone, but it was obvious that they were using that as an opportunity to gossip by letting out some terrible secret? I have heard that happen before in women's circles, and it is wrong. Now, I'm not saying that anyone on here has said anything ON PURPOSE to gossip......that is not what I mean at all. I'm talking about what it could APPEAR like to others who might happen on this thread, and how that would reflect on this ministry. Does that make sense now? I'm not always good at explaining things the way I mean them. Do you believe that PCC is guilty of heresy? If so, then that might be a different matter entirely. Right now, it seems as if the conversation is centered not on the institution, but on a certain person's character, and the judgement of such. If I am misunderstanding that, then I apologize.

#31 chev1958

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 01:01 PM

At what point do you call something gossip vs. giving facts for someones own good?


If I planned to attend a Christian college, I would want to know its reputation, standards, and practices, but I would try to find someone who had actually been there and had personal knowledge of the institution. If someone had just heard things, then I wouldn't put too much stock in the comments, but I would store them in the back of my mind in case I heard similar comments from others.

So, the first person would not be gossiping (IMO), but the second could be. That's how I'd treat it. So, I would agree with you that some comments in this thread may be gossipping, but I think gossip is in the ear of the hearer many times. If someone had a positive experience and heard a negative comment, they might consider that gossip. If another had a negative experience and heard a negative comment, that might be fact in their eyes (or ears?).

Does that make any sense? It's a slow day at work, it's 65 degrees in Iowa in November, and my motorcycle is calling out to me! And I don't mean to hijack this thread.

Mitch

#32 bzmomo7

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 01:47 PM

At what point do you call something gossip vs. giving facts for someones own good?


If I planned to attend a Christian college, I would want to know its reputation, standards, and practices, but I would try to find someone who had actually been there and had personal knowledge of the institution. If someone had just heard things, then I wouldn't put too much stock in the comments, but I would store them in the back of my mind in case I heard similar comments from others.

So, the first person would not be gossiping (IMO), but the second could be. That's how I'd treat it. So, I would agree with you that some comments in this thread may be gossipping, but I think gossip is in the ear of the hearer many times. If someone had a positive experience and heard a negative comment, they might consider that gossip. If another had a negative experience and heard a negative comment, that might be fact in their eyes (or ears?).

Does that make any sense? It's a slow day at work, it's 65 degrees in Iowa in November, and my motorcycle is calling out to me! And I don't mean to hijack this thread.

Mitch


I understand, and I would want to know a college's reputation, standards and practices as well--AS AN INSTITUTION, by observing how it functions & it's impact on its student body, what it teaches etc. (if I were considering sending my child there) I would do this either by going there myself and checking it out, or through the recommendation of others who have personally attended.

As far as it "isn't gossip if it comes from the 1st person"......I don't know about that. If that were the case, then why didn't the letter in the OP just lay out all the details as to what supposedly "really" happened? My suspicion would be because the author of the letter felt that it would be gossip and that he had PCC's best interest in mind; as an institution that big is not made up of one man. God's work is obviously still going on there, even if imperfectly. The last time I looked it was still going on very imperfectly in the church I currently attend as well, but I wouldn't lay out all of the details and tell you where I attend, lest it hurt the ministry there. (I am, of course, not speaking of gross wickedness or deep doctrinal error) I like how the verse in Prov. 11:13 puts it "A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter."

#33 Pastorj

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 04:50 PM

Naming names is not gossip. Dr. Horton has ruined PCC in the last 10 years and I wouldn't recommend the school based on the facts of what he has done. Just as Peter Ruckman is a heretic and Dr. Hyles taught the heresy of Easy Believism. Dr. Horton holds to false beliefs regarding local church which is at the center of this discussion. He has the right to hire/fire the pastor of the Campus Church, which in my opinion is no more than a college chapel at this point. As an Alumnus of the school, I also have the right to share the truth about my Alma Mater.

What has been shared does not go into the personal attacks that gossip would, it is declaring the facts of the situation and calling liars those who are. Simple as that.

#34 bzmomo7

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 05:07 PM

Naming names is not gossip. Dr. Horton has ruined PCC in the last 10 years and I wouldn't recommend the school based on the facts of what he has done. Just as Peter Ruckman is a heretic and Dr. Hyles taught the heresy of Easy Believism. Dr. Horton holds to false beliefs regarding local church which is at the center of this discussion. He has the right to hire/fire the pastor of the Campus Church, which in my opinion is no more than a college chapel at this point. As an Alumnist of the school, I also have the right to share the truth about my Alma Mater.

What has been shared does not go into the personal attacks that gossip would, it is declaring the facts of the situation and calling liars those who are. Simple as that.


Just for clarification, Pastor J, I never, ever, ever was trying to accuse you of gossipping. I was PM'd over such, and want to extend an apology to you publicly. I was merely concerned over the appearance of such, and how that could effect OB.

PCC is heretical? Dr. Horton is a heretic? Or both? I do believe heresy needs to be exposed, say on.......I've never heard it said about this college before, indeed, I use their textbooks, as well as many other churches and homeschoolers that I know, so I assumed that they were fine.

#35 Pastorj

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 08:37 PM

I wouldn't call him a heretic, but I would say his positions on the church, forgiveness, grace, pastoral authority, other areas are unScriptural. I wouldn't classify him completely with the Hyles and Ruckman's of the world, but he is not too far from it in the last 10 years.

#36 Pastorj

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 08:37 PM

By the way, no apologies necessary.

#37 His by Grace

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 12:51 AM

My last word. Simply go to the PCC website and read where they stand: doctrine, standards etc. They don't need defending. I was only expressing my view on how I felt about a Pastor, who is also a moderator, continuing to put down an institution repeatedly on OB. I am throughly persuaded that we are to pray for PCC not tear down His work. You can call and request a catalog or a entire packet on where they stand. Call 1-850-478-8496. This is the main switchboard number and you only need to let them know what you are wanting and they will connect you to the correct person! They also give a wonderful college tour! There are computer/ science&engineering /nursing/basketball camps all lasting about one week in the summer. Go visit and let your teen-ager experience camp while they stay in the dorms. You can also take a group or just send one child sometime around OCT. where they live in the dorm's with other college students and are able to attend any classes during this time for as long as they desire. I encourage all parents to do this with ANY Christian College before sending your child to attend. I think that's just simply being a good conscientious christian parent! in Christ. His by Grace

#38 Pastorj

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 11:03 AM

I am also an Alumni of the school and the direction they are heading is very alarming. People ought to know the truth about the school and a catalog isn't going to help that. Their doctrinal statement has changed at least a half a dozen times in the last 15 years so trusting what they have written down as their "official doctrinal position" is difficult.

I agree that a parent ought to go visit a school, but even when visiting, you still will not get a complete picture of what you are putting your child into.

#39 Pastorj

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 10:49 AM

As the originator of this thread, I am locking the thread.




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