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Eternal Security


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#1 lettheredeemedsayso

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 08:36 AM

I thought it would be fun to cite scripture that teaches eternal security in the Old Testament.

#2 Madeline

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 12:12 AM

Eternal security was not a promise found in the Old covenant. There is however a passage that promises eternal security under the New covenant.

Jeremiah 32:40 - I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me.

In the OT...the Spirit of the Lord (The Holy Spirit) was able to depart if grieved (1 Sam. 16:14; cf. Ps. 51:11)

1 Samuel 16:14 - But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Psalm 51:11 - Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Love,
Madeline

#3 Jerry

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 12:24 AM

The Holy Spirit leaving or staying had nothing to do with them being/staying saved or not.

Salvation was just as secure in the OT. as in the NT, though it may not be presented as clearly. God has only ever had one plan of salvation. Even Job in the oldest book of the Bible was certain that he would be resurrected and see his Redeemer Lord face to face one day. David knew he was going to Heaven when he died, and would see his baby there. OT saints knew their sins were forgiven - in fact, some of the OT references to sins being wiped out are more descriptive and all-encompassing (in appearance) than NT passages (by that, I mean that there are more OT references to sins being blotted out, cast away, etc. whereas some NT passages put conditions on forgiveness).

#4 Madeline

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 01:02 AM

There is no clear evidence in 2 Sam 12:23 that David was referring to his child being in heaven when he said "I shall go to him". It is unclear as to whether David simply meant being buried with his father's (go to him) where his child would be buried along with him, or that his child would reside in heaven. Also, salvation rests upon whether YOU know that you are secure in Christ, not others (David, Job, me, you, etc.). Further, Eph. 4:30 states that it is the Holy Spirit that "seals" the believer until the day the body is redeemed. Separation from the Spirit of God implies separation from God.

Love,
Madeline

#5 Jerry

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 12:40 PM

Sorry, you are trying to make an aspect of the new covenant be a requisite for salvation under the old covenant and it is not. You are entitled to believe what you want - but David wasn't comforted because his baby was dead and he might share a grave with him, but because he was in Heaven and he knew he would see his child again.

We are talking about OT believers, so it makes sense that this thread would be wondering if those believers knew they were secure in the Lord - and I believe the evidence is that they did. There are no OT passages teaching that their salvation was insecure, that they thought they were going to lose it, etc.

#6 HappyChristian

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 01:27 PM

Personally, I think David was referring to seeing his child again. After all, David was the one God used to write the words, "I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever." The usage of the word "forever" indicates that David knew about life after death.

#7 Jerry

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 01:43 PM

Yes, David knew he was going to spend eternity in the Lord's presence.

#8 irishman

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 02:09 PM

What about Jer. 31:3?

"The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee."

All that an everlasting God does would be everlasting! God is eternal, and so are his gifts. (Rom 11:29)

Then there is Job 19:25,26, though it is a little vague.

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

#9 Jerry

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 02:22 PM

It is speaking about the resurrection. Job knew that He was redeemed by the Messiah and that he would be raised up again one day. Chapter 14 also speaks about the resurrection.

#10 Seth Doty

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 02:45 PM

Then there is also the issue of Solomon, we know he fell into sin and died in sin, but there is no doubt he was saved. Scripture clearly teaches salvation was by grace through faith in the OT as well as the NT and that requires eternal security in the OT too since only a salvation based on works could be insecure.

#11 Jerry

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 03:03 PM

Lot is a good example too of a backslidden believer, but whose salvation was secure. The NT reveals that his righteous soul was grieved by the sin of Sodom, but nothing about him losing his salvation or it being in doubt.

#12 lettheredeemedsayso

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 04:12 PM

I, even I am he that blotteth out they transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
Isaiah 44:25

Behold for peace I had great bitterness but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back. Isaiah 38:17

#13 lettheredeemedsayso

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 09:52 AM

Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant. Eze 16:6

#14 pastorrvbc

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 12:29 AM

"Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee. Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength." Isaiah 26:3-4

#15 His by Grace

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 07:18 AM

[/i][i]

The Holy Spirit leaving or staying had nothing to do with them being/staying saved or not.

Salvation was just as secure in the OT. as in the NT, though it may not be presented as clearly. God has only ever had one plan of salvation. Even Job in the oldest book of the Bible was certain that he would be resurrected and see his Redeemer Lord face to face one day. David knew he was going to Heaven when he died, and would see his baby there. OT saints knew their sins were forgiven - in fact, some of the OT references to sins being wiped out are more descriptive and all-encompassing (in appearance) than NT passages (by that, I mean that there are more OT references to sins being blotted out, cast away, etc. whereas some NT passages put conditions on forgiveness).

Jerry, Several time's I've read similar satement's by you about the O.T. people ( or is it only concerning the Prophet's?). I'm not able to grasp how your saying that they we're able to be saved as we can today when it was a special blessing (really still is!) to have His Spirit inside of you, giving you peace and direction.
How could the people in the O.T. have this promise of eternal security when their sin's had to be continuely sacrificed for by the Priest? They couldn't even do this "covering up of their sin" for themselves. Today when we recieve Jesus Christ as our LORD and Saviour our sin's have been "taken away" ( read Hebrews Chapters 9 and 10...ALL of Hebrews is special to me!)), the Holy Spirit come's to live inside us and the Lord tell's us He keep's us because He "became sin" for us then rose from the dead and is waiting for us in Heaven NOW or will Rapture us out SOON! We are righteous only when looked upon by the LORD because He see's Christ's Righteousness NOT OUR'S because we are covered by the Blood of the Lamb! Only by this are we eternally secure because we cann't depend on "our own righteouness" because we haven't any! I can see that the the faithful to the LORD in the O.T. went to Paradise and then when Jesus later desended He could have given them a choice then but I just don't understand why you seem so sure the people (or just Prophets?) were eternally saved just as we are able to be today?? I've explained as well as I am able. Please explain how those in O.T. were secure in salvation since this is what I'm hearing you say? If I'm misunderstanding what you mean ...would you please explain what you are meaning? Confused :puzzled3: but listening, His by Grace

#16 Invicta

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 07:49 PM

OT saints were saved just the same as we are. They trusted in the promise that Christ would come which they believed. We believe the same but look back while they looked forward on the work of Christ.

#17 John81

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 08:47 PM

They have been playing some excellent sermons by Adrian Rogers on eternal security on AFR.

You can also look to their website, Love Worth Finding, for access to these messages.

#18 Jerry

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 11:18 PM

The OT also taught the covering of their sin and the future taking away of it when the Messiah came. They were saved on credit - but the payment was not made until Calvary. These might help a little:

Without Blemish In Christ - Part One

The Glory Of The NT Covenant - Part Two

Also, consider the two scapegoats on the Day of Atonement or the two birds slain for the healing of Leprosy.

#19 John the Baptist

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 10:16 PM

They have been playing some excellent sermons by Adrian Rogers on eternal security on AFR.

You can also look to their website, Love Worth Finding, for access to these messages.


I was a member of Bellevue Baptist Church in Memphis for four years back in the 1970's. He was a gifted preacher. I gained much knowledge under his ministry. His teaching on spiritual gifts is excellent. He held the same view Bill Gothard believed on the gifts.

Here is a good verse for Old Testament Salvation. No one in the Old Testament could keep the letter of the Law as we cannot keep it.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

I am not back again to argue, but to fellowship with believers. If I have offended you in the past, I ask your forgiveness.

God Bless
John:amen:

#20 Jerry

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 07:39 AM

Welcome back, John.




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