I was saved on May 11, 1986 at the Berean Baptist Church. I am a sign artist/graphics designer by trade. http://www.webbsignworks.com. My family and I play acoustic gospel music and raise sheep on our farm in NW Florida.
Group*Independent Fundamental Baptist
Member TitleHe shall feed his flock like a shepherd....
I used to be bad to play marbles for keeps until the day in fifth grade when a little Mexican boy took every last one I had, including my "lucky" green one, on the playground in grammar school. That was when I lost all my marbles and quit gambling on the same day.
Dumb: (Matt. 9:32, 33; Luke 11:14; Matt. 12:22) used to mean "unable to speak" and I'm sure these folks meant it that way. Why make such a big deal out of it? Is it worth another lawsuit to help make the cost of plane tickets go up? http://abcnews.go.co...-and-dumb-note/
Believe all three. in your heart, and salvation can take place in a split second. You must believe that you are a dirty, rotten, wicked hopeless, helpless sinner (sin). That Jesus is pure and holy, and that He loves you so much that he paid the ultimate price for you (righteousness) that God is all powerful, that you are headed for Hell and deserve it (judgment).
it's simple; turn against sin and self and Hell to Jesus......in simple, childlike faith.
One of the Muslim guys who bought sheep on my farm, guy is from Turkey, asked me why there are so many different churches here. He couldn't understand why everyone wasn't the same. I couldn't think of anything to say at the time. But the other day, during preaching, our pastor was preaching on false doctrine slipping into the churches, cults etc and it hit me: (No I wasn't daydreaming)We have so many denominations, churches, cults and religions because we are FREE. Try to have a different religion, especially real Christianity, in some of those Muslim countries.
Just sold the last 10 of our 2014 rams to Achmed from Tallahassee. Actually he and his companion are from Palestine. So far I have met 4 Arabs/Muslims from Palestine, 2 from Uzbekistan, one from Turkey, and one from Yemen. Achmed just purchased the sheep and hauled them home on a pickup truck so there was no ritual slaughter on my property and no prayers to "Allah" ; at least not out loud. I like it much better this way and it marks another 'milestone' in that this chunk of money will finish paying off the new fences.. This week I also turned "Big Man" the ram in with the ewes to get the 2015 crop in the works.
At the 43.03 mark he says "if you will pray a prayer like that and mean it......."
First of all he said "prayer" and he gave the stipulation that you must "mean it". He's not telling anyone to say certain words because he says a prayer "Like that" . He is just showing you how to come to God and he's showing you the issues to be dealt with in coming to God and I noticed he mentioned these three things... "I'm a sinner" "I'm lost" "Jesus you died to save me" Those three issues are the three that the Holy Spirit deals with the heart: sin, righteousness, and judgement.
Sin.......I'm a low down wicked sinner
Righteousness......God is Love and Holy and righteous and he displayed all of that in Jesus and on Calvary.
Judgement.....I'm on my way to Hell for all eternity and I deserve it.
In the post above, you acuse Covenanter of falsely claiming that Adrian Rogers included, in Covenanter's words, a "salvation prayer" in his 'Disgrace to Grace' sermon. You say that "all (you) found" when you listened to a sermon of the same name was some other contents, the obvious implication being that there was no reference to a salvation/sinner's prayer in Rogers' sermon at all.
Now that Covenanter has indeed posted it up and even SFIC (who earlier 'liked' your post) has acknowledged that there is indeed reference to something like a salvation/sinner's prayer at the end of the sermon (though SFIC says he thinks it isn't actually one), do you still want to claim that the sermon contains no such thing?
I've now listened to that section (and I'm going to listen to the rest because it sounds like a good sermon--haven't heard of Adrian Rogers before) and I can certainly see which bit Covenanter was talking about.
I don't recall disputing that there was "no salvation prayer". Perhaps you could point that out? The issue I had with Covenanter was this part...
A dangerous argument for eternal security was put forward by the late Adrian Rogers e.g. in his sermon "Lot - A disgrace to grace" in which he [Adrain Rogers] argued that if you have gone through the "salvation prayer" on the lines of: "Lord Jesus, I admit I am a sinner, & I believe you died for my sins, so I can be forgiven" then you are truly saved. You can live a filthy rotten life (like Lot), but you can't lose your salvation.
I tried to show Covenanter that the whole message was about living right and not being a "disgrace to grace". In the message, Adrian Rogers merely used Lot as an illustration of a "just man", a real saint of God who chose the world and thereby as a consequence lost his family. His life, testimony, and posterity were indeed wrecked because of his own decision to live for the World. But God will not allow one of His own to live a "filthy rotten life" and get away with it.
May I elaborate more? The Bible speaks of others, besides Lot, who did not "persevere" in their Godly living including the man in 1 Corinthians who Paul said had "his father's wife" and was about to be turned over the Devil for the "destruction of the flesh" that the "spirit might be saved". In other words, this dude was committing a "sin unto death". God has not made us automatic "perseverers" evidenced by the man in 1 Corinthians 5: Just as surely as you have a choice to choose Eternal Life AKA Jesus Christ, you also have a choice to live for him in this life. God will not make us live for him, but He will make us wish we had....like old Brother Lot learned too late..
Covenanter, If you believe on Jesus in your heart, no matter what "words" you may "repeat" or come up with on your own or utter none at all, you are saved. As sure as I'm breathing that's the kind of salvation that Adrian Rogers preached. Even a person with ALS, like Steven Hawking, whose "trapped" body can do no more than twitch it's cheek, if he truly repented in his heart, turned to Jesus from sin and self, the Holy Ghost would come into that man and he could be gloriously saved...saved for eternity. Could he later sin? Yes. Because we are all still sinners, we all have "the sin that so easily besets us" and we all have the propensity to "love this present world".
Covenantor, Would you mind posting a link to that "Lot, a disgrace to grace" sermon? All I found was "Don't be a Disgrace to Grace" in which the WHOLE MESSAGE is exhorting born again Christians to live right and separate from the world and worldly lusts. The message also speaks of different Jesus's which the world loves, and the righteous Jesus which the world hates. Adrian Rogers preached the Jesus who loved all mankind, gave himself for everyone. He was a Godly, sound Bible preacher and YOU don't like him because he plowed down the row of the Calvinist/reformed. Truly born again saved persons, indwelled with the Holy Ghost, CAN fall into sin so bad that God will KILL them...he chastens his own. Furthermore, YOU are presently in sin yourself not only because you teach false doctrine, but because you are falsely accusing a man of God.
I thank everyone for the replies, shared stories and advice. To go a little deeper, the topic of concern for me is the security of the believer. I don't know if anyone that replied read an earlier post I made about how to find a church. Well, I found one. I really wasn't looking at this moment but had read an article online while I was doing my Bible study and at the end of the article it said to click here if you are looking for a church in your area. I clicked on it and the name and location of the church came up. I went on their page to read their statement of faith but there was little, or not enough info there for me to decide what they believed as a whole. I wanted to learn more, so I made a list of questions, made the call and spoke with the pastor. He was very gracious, patient and willing to take the time to discuss matters of importance to me and then basically thanked me for asking hard questions and doing my research of scripture. I was satisfied with the answers and scriptures he gave me and pretty much agreed with him. I started going to the church but then remembered something I forgot to ask and that was the security of the believer. I went to him alone and addressed him after the service and he told me he believes a Christian can fall from grace but it was something we would have to discuss in depth and too hard to give me a definitive answer in that moment.He said he would be happy to have himself and his wife go over it with me in greater detail if I wanted to get together with them. The reason this is so important to me is I have been in churches that teach you can lose salvation if you don't do this or that. I can't do that again. That is a miserable condition for a Christian to be in when you feel you have to constantly question your salvation.
I think I will prepare, pray and make the appointment, which leads me to my next question. As a woman, is this proper action to take if women are not to teach men or does that only refer to women who disrupt the church? I recall Acts 18:26 so I believe I am within my right, although my husband will not be with me at this appointment.
I see red flags going up. From my experience, people who do not believe in ''once saved-always saved'' do not change their beliefs on that unless God does a mighty work in their hearts. I know many folks like this and though they are sweet people, the doctrine they hold to is deadly. I wouldn't discuss it but would respectfully leave. When a person gets truly born again, they are a possessor of everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, ever.....it's a done deal, end of story. and when Jesus says ''depart from me'' He will not say to the lost; '' I knew you once but don't anymore',
John 5:24 says....
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.