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#254496 Article on "Once Saved, Always Saved!"

Posted by heartstrings on 20 September 2010 - 02:40 PM

Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Not only that but God is my Father...and I am His son....
When my earthly father begat me, I inherited his likeness, his characteristics, his nature, his wealth, his name, and there is nothing which can change the fact that I am his biological son. I will always be his son. It's the same with my Heavenly Father. When He begets you, you are His son and nothing you can do will change that.

When a person shows no signs of change after being "born again" do you just assume they didn't have saving faith? Or, do you accept their salvation based on their moment of possible belief?

Like John 81 says, the only way I can assume another person is saved is by seeing a change in their life, or the fruit of the Spirit working and bearing witness to me.
I can see a change in their life, but I can't see into their heart; only God can do that. But I can be certain of my own salvation because I was there when Jesus came into my heart, and I know what He did for me. The people in the church house could hear me tearfully cry out "Jesus!" as I hurried to the altar, but only He and I knew that He filled me with His Spirit. So really, they had to see a change in my life as well.

I guess we both agree then that a change of some magnitude must take place. Without change, I fear for that soul hanging on by a "prayer" .... it's never just a prayer alone, but the repentance that leads to the prayer. Without repentance I can't see genuine salvation. One must see the error in their ways and want to change.

I guess that is where I bunt heads with some of the eternal security folks. They look at the Bible and see an absolute moment of rebirth. A date. A time. I don't disagree that it's faith alone that saves, but the Bible shows many times where head knowledge won't get you far. It's a genuine moment of rebirth where one sees the need to trust Christ alone and nothing else. And at that moment the insides are changed and the child of God starts a journey along with the Holy Spirit. That child will never be separated from God. But, I see an earthly hand reaching our for a gift with a stipulation attached. God says to love him and keep his commandments and that faith without works is dead. If someone seeks God and starts the walk but then suddenly stops and has zero works and zero love for God I believe the Bible says they are still lost. Some say they had no saving faith, but it's not about a moment of salvation but about a beginning that must grow.

Some are strong in their faith and they grew from being a babe in Christ. Others just seem to stagnate. I fear for the unchanged "Christian" because I believe God reached out, He saved them, and then they rejected him in their infant state. They didn't build on a rock. They were seed on bad soil. I don't know how long God gives the babe in Christ, but if they don't start to grow I fear for them. I believe the speck of saving faith is small, just so one trust Christ alone and what he did on the Cross. But, how can one expect eternal life if they don't trust Christ anymore? Bible says they are dead, and dead means no life at all. Maybe they are weak, and still trust Christ, and maybe they are dead and don't want Christ. What about those moments of life? Was that nothing at all or maybe God turning the key and starting the journey. They didn't grow, they didn't care, they died, they gave God back his gift and said I don't really want it after all.

Am I the judge? No. But the Bible says faith without works is dead. That should fear people. Those hanging on by a prayer don't fear, they just accept they are helpless humans and that God made this magical way to heaven. They assume Christ is their advocate even as they reject him. They say he saved them on such and such a date. How foolish. They have no moment when they trusted him as their savior, they just have a date then when acquired head knowledge.

Not sure my stand is clear.

On a Sunday morning, May 11, 1986 in the Berean Baptist Church, about 3 or 4 pews back, on the left side of the auditorium, Jesus came into my heart when I beleived and called on His name right after the preacher had preached a sermon entitled "The Lord is my Shepherd". This is what the Bible says happened......

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

So, 24 years ago I heard the Word and the moment I believed on Jesus I was a possessor of everlasting life, passed from death unto life, with a promise that I would never go to Hell. Please read this verse.......

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his.And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Now read the next verse........

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Did you catch that? God says that He "Knoweth them that are His", but in the future when He puts those in the Lake of Fire He won't say "I used to know you"; No, He will say to all of them "I never knew you.

#254370 Article on "Once Saved, Always Saved!"

Posted by heartstrings on 18 September 2010 - 03:38 PM

Yes, the word "altar" occurs 378 times in the KJB. But the New Testament "altar" is not a physical thing where animals are sacrificed; instead, it can be the point at which believers present themselves as a living sacrifice to God. It is a "place" of giving; the giving of gifts of praise to God or the giving of love to our brothers and sisters in Christ. Hebrews 13:10-16
Our church has no physical piece of furniture called an "altar" but that is what we call the place where we kneel at the front. I should have just said "when I came forward" or something like that. But anyway....I was saved before I left the pew.

#254070 Are there two wills in God?

Posted by heartstrings on 15 September 2010 - 09:48 PM

I absolutely agree. Such censoring is inappropriate. If someone has a problem with part of a serom or their writings, either don't print it or print it as is and then offer a rebuttal of what they disagree with or simply point out they disagree with whatever point.

It's interesting that Rice, like Spurgeon, differentiated between Calvinists and hyper-Calvinists yet he felt a need to censor Spurgeon???

What really gets me about the whole debate is the unwillingness of so many to reasonably address verses the other side uses. To ignore certain verses or to proclaim simplistically that they don't mean what they say, especially while proclaiming the other side can't use that same tactic, is no way to win a debate or sway observers to your view.

Those few who actually do try and reconcile the seeming differences are most often ignored or shut out. I don't understand why so much emotionalism seems to be involved on this particular topic.

Amen. I think most of the emotion is because the idea that God is sovereign in salvation goes completely against human nature and wounds the ego big time. Before anyone says it's not true though, I'll say that when I first came to reformed theology I was offended, but I did not realize it was my ego that was being wounded. I only saw that it was some time after I became reformed. It's difficult to explain to someone who has not experienced this though, because it does not feel like this to someone who is on the other side of the fence.

The true and living God is all powerful and all knowing; He is in full control. By using the word "sovereign", you are saying that everthing that happens, and everything WE do is personally manipulated by him. Your god is a puppeteer. But what I mean by full control, is that God can do anything He wants except sin. Understand, that God allows us to choose HIm or reject Him of our own free will ****But this is where his true sovereignty comes in*****....God is going to judge you and I for whateve choice we made...good or bad and there will be NOTHING we can do about it. If you choose Christ, He takes you to Heaven, if your reject Christ, He puts you in Hell. Simple enough? And you can cry out to the rocks and mountains to fall on you and hide you from HIm if you want, but it will be in vain. My God is much more loving and more powerful than yours. Mine is gracious enough and yet all pwerful enough to require you to choose Him or reject Him of your own freewill. Your false god of Calvinism has to make people choose Him, because He is selfish and cruel, and he has nothing better to offer.

#253485 Interesting quotes concerning music made by instruments in Churches

Posted by heartstrings on 08 September 2010 - 06:33 PM

God is a Spirit, He has no need for the physical sound or even the words we sing during a service. The Bible says "making melody in your hearts unto the Lord". What God wants to hear is the "melody" of a joyful, worshipping heart. Music was given to us, for us. God doesn't even need to hear our singing. If the music you play and listen to can influence your heartstrings to play for Him, that's what He's interested in.

#252915 Are there two wills in God?

Posted by heartstrings on 02 September 2010 - 06:30 PM

None of those explanations do away with two wills being in play here. The crucifixion of Jesus was God's will and murder is against God's will.

No sir.....
God is a giver...God is love, my friend.
I gave you the verse above. It says he "laid down" His life. It says "No man taketh it". He is the one who raised Lazarus and the centurion's daughter from the dead and He was in full control of the situation. They could have cut off his head and he wouldn't have died until he was good and ready. It was God's will to GIVE...He freely gave his life. God is selfless.
That is part of his very nature. Man is a taker...God is a giver. Death and destruction is nto God's will...Giving himself for us is.

I'm not sure how this relates.

Of course Christ laid down His own life by allowing Judas, Pilate, the Roman soldiers and such to bring about His crucifiction, but had Christ not allowed this prophecy regarding this would not have been fulfilled.

Christ knew Judas Iscariot was the one prophecy spoke of as the one who would betray Him.

God's plan, as revealed in prophecy in the Old Testament, was that Christ would be betrayed and this betrayal would lead to Christ being crucified. This would serve as the perfect sacrifice...

Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I need to wait until I have time to read that article. I'm not sure I understand for sure the point either of you two are trying to make but this reply doesn't seem to fit with regards to what it appears the discussion is about.

Okay, my brain is starting to itch so I'm moving on... :Bolt:

The point is, God did not predetermine Judas Iscariot to betray Jesus. God simply knew it would happen and He told us in his word it would happen. Not only that, but when Jesus chose Judas to be a dsciple He knew exactly what Judas was going to do. Judas did what he wanted to do, sir. That is what we can't wrap our minds around.

#252720 Do Wives Have To Love Their Husbands?

Posted by heartstrings on 01 September 2010 - 11:42 AM

Proverbs 31:23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. When describing the life of the virtuous woman, why does it say that her "husband is known in the gates"? It says that because the virtuous woman of Proverbs 31 is a woman who builds her husband up instead of tearing him down. No other person has such power as a man's wife. She can make him or break him, so to speak. Now read one of the things that happens to this woman because of such virtuous conduct.......
Proverbs 31:28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.

Proverbs 31 shows a family whose members who encourage and thereby bulid each other up. Showing appreciation makes the other person want to do even better and it shows that you really love them: It really does glorify God.....

16But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?

17Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee.

18When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers.

19Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit.

20Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son.

21These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

22Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.

23Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

A biting, slandering tongue is a destroyer.... But real reverence. and real, sincere, honest praise encourages people and it shows them that you really love them. It says "I appreciate you...you are valuable to me". Just start by praising your husband; brag on him; build him up and encourage him. As mentioned earlier; don't question him when he has to correct the kids; As long as he's not abusing them, that's what he's supposed to do. Your kids know if you respect him or not. Be an example. If you continue to reverence him and make every effort to honor him, and praise him for his achievements, it can make a huge difference in your home. Do that, and pretty soon, you'll hear him and the kids praising you too.

#252222 Do Wives Have To Love Their Husbands?

Posted by heartstrings on 27 August 2010 - 02:11 PM

Titus 2:3-5 . . The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Seems to me, that if God wants a woman to be taught to do something, He wants her to do it. That's not rocket science.
And a woman, who truly is in love with her husband WILL reverence him. In fact, she will honour and obey him. This is not subservience; it is simply God's order of authority. A wife who loves and reverences her husband and submits to his headship can have everything she wants out of life; authority, wealth, peace, happiness, love and honour. She can even be an entrepreneur. You can read about her life in Proverbs 31. I'm married to such a wife, BTW.

If a wife cannot bring herself to submit to her husband; that is no excuse for him; he is still responsible for the Godly order of his family. Jerry #s, I would have to say your uncle didn't "man up" and take the lead in his home. And Cliff; if you look and and lust after other women, you don't love your wife.

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