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ThePilgrim

Member Since 07 Aug 2011
Online Last Active Today, 10:41 AM
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Posts I've Made

In Topic: Way Of Life - Friday Church News Notes, Volume 15, Issue 42

18 October 2014 - 10:07 AM

[sarcasm alert]The Roman Church has long accepted homosexual priests so it is about time they accepted homosexual laity.[sarcasm alert]

In Topic: Sermon Supoenaes

17 October 2014 - 05:26 PM

Glad I don't live under British law.

In Topic: Sermon Supoenaes

17 October 2014 - 02:13 PM

Obviously we can read any motives we like into these subpoenas being issued, but strictly on the facts alone I don't see what this has got to do with them being pastors or separation of church and state or anything like that.

 

A petition was lodged with the council and there is a dispute about whether it contains enough valid signatures. The group that lodged the petition is obviously saying that there are and the council is saying that there aren't. So a group of people are now suing the council to force them to acknowledge that there are enough signatures and respond to the petition appropriately. In response to the lawsuit, the council's lawyers have issued subpoenas demanding information from those who collected the signatures, and the pastors in question are among those who collected the signatures.

 

At the end of the day, if it's necessary to collect that information for the sake of defending the lawsuit then those doing the defending are justified asking for it and its irrelevant whether the people who have the information are pastors or not. If the case is about whether a petition was done fairly and it's necessary to scrutinise how those who collected the signatures went about doing it, a person shouldn't be immune from such scrutiny just because they happen to be a pastor, even if they've decided to do the organising/collecting in 'work' time.

 

So if the subpoenas are justified for the sake of defending the suit, then those subject to them ought to oblige even if they are pastors, and if the subpoenas aren't justified then those subject to them ought not to oblige even if they aren't pastors.

 

So are they justified? I.M.O no. There are presumably very clear rules about what is a valid signing of a petition and what isn't, and the existence of the paperwork isn't disputed, so surely that's all anyone needs in order to establish whether enough valid signatures were collected--no need for anything else. Moreover the scope of the subpoenas seems to go way beyond collecting information about the petition, which of course is the bit the press has majored on. So I've got some sympathy with those who say this is about trying to intimidate pastors, 'cos it does look suspicious. But there are alternative explanations, e.g. lazy legal secretaries, beaurocratic incompetency etc.

Though there is an argument going on about the subject you are addressing, that is not what the subpoenas are about.  

In Topic: Whats for Supper...

15 October 2014 - 06:47 PM

Chili and cornbread

In Topic: The Never Ending Story...

14 October 2014 - 07:38 PM

. . . . serve me pinto beans.

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