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#388683 Historians Trace The Earliest Church Labeled "baptist" Back To 1609

Posted by ThePilgrim on 23 September 2014 - 01:15 PM


If Baptists are Baptist by doctrine, or as Jim puts it 'doctrine, belief and practice', then why would it matter if someone wanted to call the church they are part of 'protestant' to indicate that some time in the past that church's early members had been under the yoke of catholicism and had come out from it (presumably at great cost to themselves)? It would be in the same vein as folk calling their church 'independent' or 'fundamentalist'. The important thing wouldn't be where they had come from, but what they had become.


It would matter only in our endeavor to trace our history. If, in tracing our history, we come to this supposed church, then the doctrinal history would stop there, because before that they were Protestants. This is the mistake that the OP made that led him to believe that Baptists had, at one time come out of the reformation.


But not knowing the exact circumstances of their divergence from the Protestant movement we can only guess at best as to whether or not they had become a true New Testament Church. As I said in another post any authority, including church authority has a source. The original source for church authority is Jesus Christ. This authority is preserved down through the ages by one church begetting (or authorizing) another of the same faith and order.
Yet the argument on this thread seems to be (and I may have misunderstood it) that one simply can't be a Baptist if one's ancestors or one's particular church's founders were folk who came out of catholicism. If that's true, it means that Baptists are not just Baptist by doctrine, but by lineage also--i.e. you can only be Baptist if your ancestors were Baptist (even if not by name).


Again the issue of authority comes into play here. In the illustration you gave above I would have to say that if they just decided to start teaching Baptist doctrine, without  any attempt to seek approval of an existing Baptist church, this would not constitute them as a Baptist church.


I keep saying that authority has a source. I am trying to not get too long winded here but perhaps a short illustration is in order. Let's use a police department for an illustration of authority. A police department derives its authority from a government entity such as a city, state or county.


Now, I decide I want to start a police department. I go buy uniforms, badges, police cars and am determined to uphold the laws of the land. Does this make what I have created a police department? Of course not. Why? Because I lack proper authority.

In another thread, GraceSaved was explaining her dilemma of not being near a Biblically-sound IFB church. The reaction of lots of people on this forum was to say that she should start one with other believers at someone's home, even if it meant that they wouldn't have a Pastor to start with.


Now are you saying that if Gracesaved and the other hypothetical believers had been muslims or a catholics before their salvation, then it would be forever impossible for them to group together as a church, no matter their doctrine, beliefs and practice?


No, I am not saying this at all. The advice given to Gracesaved was solid advice and was also predicated by saying that this group that have banded together should seek out the approval of an existing Baptist church. This is a good example of how mission churches are eventually established as a separate Independent Church.


I hope this helps clarify my stand on this issue without having to write and book to explain it.


I suppose one can claim to get authority for their church where ever one chooses but as for me I will seek it from Jesus Christ alone.  If I am so led to start an assembly in my home I need not seek sanction from anyone other than God alone.  It is Him I seek to please, not some ecclesiastical organization whatever it's name.

#388542 Last Day Of The Uk?

Posted by ThePilgrim on 20 September 2014 - 11:50 PM

Wall Street and The City of London are all for Scotland staying the way it is so I don't think there will be any trouble there.

#388288 Letter To The Editor: Rick Warren, The Road To Rome, And More Trouble At Biol...

Posted by ThePilgrim on 20 September 2014 - 05:40 AM

As I always say, "My how times change."  Drift.  It seems sometimes that everything just seems to drift.  Nothing ever seems to stay in the same place . . . . just drifts away to someplace else. . . . endless change . . . . never stops.

Thank You Lord that You never drift off to some other place . . . . You never change . . . . yesterday . . . . today . . . . tomorrow . . . . all the same . . . . never change.  Thank You Lord.

#388036 Way Of Life - Country Music: A Safe Alternaive?

Posted by ThePilgrim on 18 September 2014 - 05:42 PM

Another thing about Folk music.  All the traditional melodies are free from copyright and anybody and everybody can use them.  Makes it nice for people who write a poem and set it to music ( I have done several myself).

Simple melodies, simple words, and simple guitar, dulcimer, autoharp, banjo . . . . just good, fun music.  Love it!

#388016 Way Of Life - Country Music: A Safe Alternaive?

Posted by ThePilgrim on 18 September 2014 - 04:50 PM

What's the difference between folk music and country music?

Folk music is the music of the people. . . . music that just plain ordinary folks can sit around the living room or camp fire and enjoy with or without instruments.  Folk music that is enjoyed by country folks in America can be called country music.  However Country, with a capital "C" is not folk music.  Country is just another genre of popular music.  Country is not simple and easy to play and sing sitting around with friends in the living room as folk music is.  Country requires assorted expensive instruments and a lot of talent to perform, if it didn't it would not be a profession for some singers and players.  Folk is simple, Country is not.  Folk is sung for the fun of it, Country is sung for the money.  

#387668 Why Men Sometimes Don't Understand Women Shopping

Posted by ThePilgrim on 16 September 2014 - 05:02 PM

I remember my first Snipe hunt when I was a kid.  The big kids left me holding the bag as they fanned out to chase the snipes toward me so I could catch them in the bag.  Never got any.

#387632 The Lyell Darwin Connection

Posted by ThePilgrim on 16 September 2014 - 10:20 AM

Yes in some ways the human brain can be compared to a computer.  I remember a axiom I learned within the first few hours of using my new computer back in 1990: "Garbage in Garbage Out".  Yes indeed you can compare the human brain to a computer in that way, but I wouldn't take the comparison a further than that.

Ps 139:14  I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
I have yet to own a computer that was fearfully and wonderfully made.  
Sorry, the lead-in to the article just caught my eye and I had to comment on it.  I just get tired of human inventions being compared to God,s creations.  There is really no comparison in the final analysis.
The rest of the article was pretty good.  

#387595 Rough Couple Of Weeks On The Farm

Posted by ThePilgrim on 15 September 2014 - 10:47 PM

When I lived in Nebraska my collie Amber would feast daily on pheasant and Tomas our cat would feast on voles.  Their eating habits saved a lot on the pet food bill.

#387543 Whats for Supper...

Posted by ThePilgrim on 15 September 2014 - 01:19 PM

Making beef stew again with lots of fresh tomatoes and carrots and parsnips and onions from garden.  I have got to use a lot of tomatoes, they just keep coming on, and on, and on . . . . .

Think I'll make some homemade biscuits too . . . . and slather on the butter.  I've just put on ten pounds thinking about it.  Mmmmmmmmmmmmm

#386988 Isis Or Isil Does It Matter?

Posted by ThePilgrim on 11 September 2014 - 10:02 AM

I really don't hink it matters.  The intent of these people is the establishment of an Islamic State to encompass the whole world so I would think simply IS for Islamic State is sufficient.

#386987 "christian" Cursing

Posted by ThePilgrim on 11 September 2014 - 09:56 AM

It's all a matter of vocabulary.  If one reads a lot of good books including the bible one will develop a vocabulary that does not contain such words.  In my earlier years I didn't read much and I learned my vocabulary from the people I associated with.  They were all (just like me at the time) far from the Lord and with small vocabularies.  I am not proud of it but I was a foul mouthed idiot.


Just about the time I took up OTR truck driving I (while listening to J. Vernon McGee over a period of time on the radio) returned to my heavenly father.  I also took up reading the bible along with commentaries and other reference material as well as a lot of history (you would be surprised how much down time a trucker has that he could spend reading).  I would say over 90% of the books I read were pre 20th century works.  I slowly but surely developed a decent vocabulary . . . . along with a determination to use it.


If all the words one knows are bad words . . . . one will use bad words.  Teach your kids to read a lot of good books an keep them away movies and TV . . . . it works.

#386907 How do you Feel today?

Posted by ThePilgrim on 10 September 2014 - 09:31 PM



Forget the golf ball, maybe a baseball and a professional slugger!


(or keep doing what you are doing which might be a little easier remedy)

How about a Louisville Slugger?

#386904 "christian" Cursing

Posted by ThePilgrim on 10 September 2014 - 09:20 PM

Prayer is certainly needed when it comes to our speech. As we learn in James, who can tame the tongue! We certainly can't without the Lord's help.


After all these years in Christ and I still find myself fighting certain speech battles too. Including trying to not to use the words "luck" and "lucky". I rarely use those anymore at all but every so often there it is again.


Praying for you brother.

I fortunately have been lucky to break the habit of using the word.  "Whoops".  That's a double "Whoops".  Sorry . . . . I'll just shutup now.

#386616 Whats for Supper...

Posted by ThePilgrim on 08 September 2014 - 07:55 PM

Stir fried chicken and vegetables in sesame oil with my great sauce.  No humble pie though.

#386615 "Ban The Person Above You" Game

Posted by ThePilgrim on 08 September 2014 - 07:54 PM

Ban NN for having no sense of rythm.  I think I spelled that wrong.  Oh well

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