I suspect they came ready to riot either way the jury went:
As it was, they riot because there's no justice
If he was found liable and was to go to trial, they would have rioted, because it proved there was racism.
There was no good decision from a damage-contrl point of view, just the right thing.
Concerning the article, for someone who seems to know a bit about grand jury and court proceedings, he's either ignoring or ignorant concerning the fact the regular court hearings routinely ignore and reject a lot of testimonies and witnesses, and often, innocent people have gone to prison because it was expedient for them to suffer instead of someone else. Had this gone to a standard, open jury trial, he could never have gotten a fair trial, because it would have been a media circus and he would have been found guilty. And good luck finding an unbiased jury.
Of course, HAD it gone to trial, and HAD he been found innocent, in an open, transparent proceeding, people would still insist it was unfair and rigged, like in Florida with the guy there, whose name has escaped me for a moment. And of course, no mention now of the Federal Government's DOJ involvement, that they found the same outcome-no words from Eric Holder, because of course, even though he's a raging liberal, they will excoriate him as an Uncle Tom.
No, no outcome would have been good enough-they came to be angry, to riot, to destroy, and nothing would have stopped it.
By the way, have you heard now that its the police's fault for all the damage, because "they let the city burn" because they weren't violent enough in stopping the rioters? Again, catch-22, darned if they stopped them, darned if they didn't. Pardon my potty mouth.
Ah, typology, I like that subject. Let's look at typology in the light of the tribulation
Noah and the flood: God's wrath fell on the earth and its inhabitants with the great flood to destroy all life off the earth. But Noah found grace in God's eyes, and He spared him and his family, along with some animals. But He didn't remove Noah completely from the tribulation of that time, instead, he lifted him to ride it out safely atop the judgment.
Lot was the one righteous man in Sodom, and we may presume Gomorrah and the other three cities of the plains destroyed by God. But the Lord, in preserving Lot, didn't remove him from all tribulation, but allowed him to escape the wrath of God, and remove to another place. yet he still had to endure loss and still had trouble associated with it.
Of course, we see Enoch, who walked with God, and was not, for the Lord took him. This removeal in itself, as a type of the catching away, doesn't seem to be at all related to missing tribulation or trouble, just a removal, so is it typology for the catching up? Same with Elijah being taken up, no trouble related to it, just a removal.
Understand, I am not assuming that you use these particular events as typology for the tribulation and catching up, but these are some that are typically used, and the more I consider them, the less they seem to promise a catching away from the time of tribulation, and more a promise to preserve us and protect us, to cause us to ride above the storms of God's judgments against the wicked, while still present to witness them.
But this is how I understand them. It was mentioned above the idea that God would teach His people differently-of course, like the one who mentioned it, I don't believe He does, I think we too often look at scripture according to our thoughts and yes, whether we want to admit it or not, we have all been influenced in some manner from a teacher or preacher; not that we're parrots or sheep, (though we are sheep, but not in that way), but surely its impossible NOT to be influenced by men we respect for their wisdom and understanding. Not sure what we can do about that-unless we altogether reject any human teachers and preachers, but to do so would be against the word of God, and those types ALWAYS fall into weird error.
Fortunately, I don't see the subject of rapture, (yes, I said it) timing as fundamental, as important to one's faith or salvation, nor even something that, depending on what we believe, would reject the direct teachings of Christ, except for those who believe there will be no catching up. I believe we all agree that it will happen, and it will happen when the Lord deems it is time to happen, and I suspect there is not one of us here that would not be willing to repent and seek forgiveness if they are found wrong on the day of judgment.
I believe the center of Revelation prophecy is, indeed, Israel-the nations that stand against her are also in some view, though for wrath. And while certainly the entire globe will be involved in some manner, and by the end, will all be standing against Israel, either directly or in conviction, there is no need to focus on any of them.
That's why I have no issue with believing that believers will endure till just before the wrath-because, even though the prophecy is primarily about Israel, and events surrounding her, there are still other nations present. Just because its not about the church, doesn't mean the church will be gone, or believers will be gone. God's focus is His focus, but it doesn't mean everyone else must be gone for Him to focus on a certain group. For 2000 years the focus has been the churches, but Israelites are still here. Before that, Israel was the focus, but there were other nations around, too.
Hollywood has more "Christian" movies in the works because they realize that tagging any movie as being in any way Christian will draw extra millions of American Christians into the movie houses.
The last Superman movie, a movie that should clearly be noticed as not being Christian, was nevertheless promoted as having "Christian themes", and was highly publicized to Christians. That was enough to draw millions of Christians to see the movie.
It's a shame more Christians can't tell the difference between biblical Christianity, things which fit in with Scripture, and those things that are tagged as "Christian themed" or being a "family movie" or having "family values". Most often these movies, even if they aren't "as bad as" other movies, still provide exceedingly little, and usually no outright Christian teaching, values or themes.
This is more of Hollywood and the world hijacking Christianity for personal gain and the downgrading of Christianity.
I'm waiting for the new Moses movie, starring Batman as Moses.
Moses walks into Pharoah's palace, steps boldy before him.
So, once again, evolutionary scientists have discovered bones of an animal they are crowing about, calling it a missing link, or an transitionary specimen, that links Rhinos, Horses and Tapirs.
Their primary evidence for this seems to be wrapped up in this statement from the article:
“Many of Cambaytherium thewissi‘s features, like the teeth, the number of sacral vertebrae, and the bones of the hands and feet, are intermediate between Perissodactyla and more primitive animals. This is the closest thing we’ve found to a common ancestor of the Perissodactyla order.”
So, some teeth, bones and feet are similar to some other animals-so it MUST be evidence that modern animals with an uneven amount of toes on their back feet all evolved from these. never a thought of the possibility that it just might be a unique animal.
I also like how they have scientifically painted a picture of what it looked like, to include hair and color patterns.
I get so aggravated lately, what with Bill Nye the Science so-called Guy declaring that children tqaught creation can't be good citizens of the next generation, because their understanding is stunted, and there can never come any good science from creationists, while all the time ignoring that he and other scientists, (he isn't one, by the way) stand on the shoulders of creationists who discovered the various LAWS of the universe, not just theories, and even today, we have people like Damadian, a six-day creationist that invented the MRI scanner, one of the greatest recent medical breakthroughs to assist in treatments.
Bill Nye, the guy who holds a BACHELOR'S in Mechanical Engineering, is now one of the go-to-guys for proof of evolution. Its funny-now, I realize that someone doesn't need big credentials to study and understand such things as science, but if a creationist scientist who holds anything less than a Ph. D in one of the accepted evolutionary sciences tries to stand for scientific creation, they will be ignored and called worthless as a proponent, because he doesn't have good enough credentials.
yet, here's Bill Nye, with his bachelors in mechanical engineering, NOT an evolutionary science, I believe, but he sure is a rock star with the evolution set.
By the way, in his debate with Ken Ham, which I was sorely disappointed with because the debate forum was poorly designed for an actual debate, Nye didn't bring up anything that hasn't been dealt with and well-answered before.
Actually, there are many hints toward a Pre-Trib Rapture.
One such hint is
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
God will not pour out His wrath on His own, but on the wicked. And that wrath will be throughout the Earth.
No need looking for me when that period comes, because I won't be here... you won't find me.
This assumes the tribulation is synonomous with the wrath, yet Revelation gives us seven seals, (which I believe, in reading it, seems to be an overview of the entire period, though I admit I could be wrong), then seven trumpets, which seem to be the various events of the tribulation as they occur, then the seven vial of the wrath of God, which would indeed be the outpouring of God's wrath, begun in Rev 14 with the angel from the temple in Heaven harvesting from the ripe vines and casting them into the winepress of God's wrath.
So, there is a tribulation time, and there is God's wrath, but while they are connected, they are yet two separate events.
I have said it before in these sames debates. there is little Scriptural evidence on a whole to support anything but a pre trib rapture. What don't you folks get about "no man knoweth" and thief in the night. 3.5 years into an obvious reign of an antichrist is HARDLY no man knoweth.
This aint rocket surgery Mike, come on.
You assume we will know the exact day the tribulation begins. I suspect that, if we ARE here, we will wake up as any other day, and not realize the Lord's clock has begun. Now, if you are correct, and we are raptured out, then yes, those remaining will have a zero hour-they can look at the event and say, "Yes, they all disappeared at exactly 3:12pm Tuesday the 15th of whatever, on such and such a date." But again, there is NO scriptural evidence that shows Jesus coming and taking His people, except for in Rev 14, where we have an abundantly clear picture of Jesus, after the seventh, (the last) trumpet, IN the clouds, reaping His harvest, immediately prior to the reaping of the clusters of the vine, which are then cast into the winepress of God's wrath. Show me a clearer view of the catching-up.
Are you referring to the Second Coming or the catching away of the Church (slang is Rapture)? Your Scriptural references apply only to the former and not the latter. You remember the Scriptures dealing with the catching away of the Church, don't you? You know the whole thief in the night; the hour no man knoweth, two in the field, one taken; etc etc etc.
If you want to be here for the trib my friend, I recommend you collect and study every doomsday show on the discovery channel you can find. You will need it or just surrender your head without any attempt to evade and survive.The idea that believing in a mid or post trib/pre-wrath catching up, means one 'wants to be here for the trib' is error. No one in their right mind would want to be, but when one's study finds no clear passages of scriptuire that says otherwise, and the only really clear scripture declares it to take place just prior to the outpouring of God's wrath AFTER the tribulation, then what else can we do? By the way, it isn't TV shows and movies or works of fiction I will seek to, but to the Bible. Not much chance to survive and evade, at least not for long. In fact, most WILL die, because it will be given to the Antichrist to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. I suspect there will be far more going up first, from the grave, than "we who are alive and remain".
It would be a shame if you are the only born again person prior to the Lord coming in the air not spared from this great tribulation. Who will you talk to about being left behind? It will be lonely for you. (I am poking fun-please forgive) Maybe not as lonely as you believe.
Of course, if you are born again, you won't be here whether you have been deceived into mid or amil or not. Hey to each their own I suppose but it amazes me that folks can actually confuse the differences between the two events in Scripture. Still haven't seen the scripture that proves this out, that Christians won't be present for the tribulation time.
But hey, apparently there are diverse group of religious folks on this site supposedly being lead by the Spirit in their study of the Scriptures and almost none of them agree on much of anything, even repentance unto salvation. Can't argue that.
Got a couple in our church who used to attend a Methodist church-the only reason they come to mine is because they moved away from that one. Now, all the things they have heard about the worldliness of the Methodists today, the error, the outright lies sometimes going forth there, woman preachers, etc, yet when they visit that area, they always go back to that church, and then gush about how wonderful it was to be there. Again, kind of slow folks-she's a bit slow and he has a form of Aspergers.
This is my group-as well, I have an Armenian lady who is from an Orthodox church in Armenia, who only goes to ours because there is no orthodox church to attend. She argues about how terrible the Jews are, crosses herself, and in her heart is still orthodox, even tho9ugh she hears the truth regularly. With her, I suspect it is a language thing, as she speaks English only so well. But at least she got it last week concnerning Baptism, and she now agrees that baptism doesn't protect a baby, that it has nothing to do with salvation. But its slow, after so long being immersd in a religion that is a major part of her culture.
But I am thankful for each person, and thankful that they are there and I can keep them under the gospel, and maybe, one day, they will hear and understand.
If that's accurate I would say "wow!" Then I would wonder about the pastors they have and just what they preach and teach.
Now, if we are talking about the IFB folks/churches that have chose to take a Leftward turn, then I could see some of them looking to "lesser" sources but that's because they are heading that direction anyway.
Even in my little church, I have to fight always to keep them on track. I have one man who is a bit slow, and he, at times, seems to want to listen to any weirdo he meets on the local trail, than he will to me. Then I have to spend time in refuting everything this fellow is told, because, of course, it all sounds so good. Again, he's a bit slow, brain damaged thrice over, so he's a challenge. Someone once told him that he was supposed to confess his sins before the church to be forgiven. Once. I have spent the last 8 months having to, at almost every service, tell him its not true. I have given entire messages on it, and still, he asks about it.
Another man, smart guy, but with an SBC background, I recently had to tell him that his hero, Billy Graham, has a lot of problems and he's not the one we should be going to for our doctrine.
People are stubborn, they don't always pay attention, and they are so bombarded with so much junk out there that sounds so good and feels so good, that the truth must be continually laid bare before them, time and again.
i MUST AGREE THAT WE DO NEED WORKS LIKE hAM'S, AS PASTORS GENERALLY DON'T HAVE THE TIME AND KNOWLEDGE TO GO AND DO THE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH NEEDED TO GET THE INFORMATION SUCH A MINISTRY CAN SUPPLY.
Sorry for yelling. Works like Ham's and Hovinds are great and are an excellent resource for pastos and churches, but they should be approached and used as any outside resource is-by always examining everything by scripture, and, yes, by warning if there are problems or inconsistencies.
Bottom line, in this or any work or ministry-we must be careful to avoid being followers and idolizers of men, however good they might be, and just use the information. Many have discounted Hovind's excellent work, because he is in prison-big mistake, because Hovind has done excellent work. So, we should not discount Ham's work because of what he might do that is wrong or questionable-it doesn't make the truth less truth. Just, in both cases, reminds us that men are fallible. What Hovind did was not wrong, but done in a wrong manner-let's learn from that, but still hold to and teach the truths he teaches and taught. As well, re know that we don't follow Ham to attend and speak at CCM concerts, but we still use and appreciate the work he has done in his field.
We speak a lot on the imminent return, how the Apostles, like Paul, acted as though the rapture could occur at any minute. But, have we considered that Paul and the other apostles didn't yet have the book of the Revelation, if it was, indeed, written, as many believe, around 90AD? And the Revelation contains a lot about what would occur around the rapture, and the subsequent second coming of Christ Jesus, things the Apostles and other believers didn't know, as the book and its contents, in total, had not yet been delivered.
That having been said, merely for consideration, I don't worry much about the rapture or its timing. The Lord will call us when He calls us. Yes, I pray for the Lord to return; Yes, even so, Lord Jesus, Come! But until then, we have the promises of the word of God to hold to until then: that wicked men will wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived, the very men spoken of at the beginning of this post, who think they are in charge, yet are not. We are promised tribulation, (not speaking of THE tribulation here), in this life if we will live faithfully for Jesus. We are promised that the world will hate our Lord, and thus, us; that the devil will fight us. that in general, things are going to get worse, before they get better. And even when it seems things are getting better, ('peace, peace') then will come sudden destruction.
So really, I think we need to just continue to concentrate on the work of God, on souls, on living faithfully for the Lord until we either die and go to glory, or the Lord returns. We don't really know what all is on God's agenda before Jesus calls us out-nothing says He told us everything-so let us just be faithful. I love my wife dearly, but she is one of those that is constantly looking at this and that as signs: this is the chip, that may be the antichrist, middle east, israel, etc, etc., and I have to remind her to relax and just keep busy. Yes, we should be watchful, but in all the watching, like on the walls of Jerusalem in Nehemiah's time, have one eye on the enemy, and your sword strapped on, while working the work until it is complete.
If ken Ham is evangelical, then of course he wouldn't call out Graham, because he would be in agreement with him.
It isn't that David Cloud is holding Ham to IFB standards, but to BIBLE standards. And he is right to do so, because all who claim Christ, who have a following, need to have error made known, so others don't follow them into their error.
Kit you said it was the CCM groups that are so dangerous to believers, and I agree wholeheartedly. And it was this, the attendance to a CCM concert, and endorsement of it, that Cloud warned concerning Ham-not, I think, to beat-up Ham, but to warn those who follow Ham not to follow in his ways. Remember, we are not to let our liberties become a stumbling block, and Ken Ham's liberty in attendance to, and speaking at, a CCM concert, could indeed become a stumbling block to those IFB's who follow Ken Ham.
I think we also need to discern the difference between an 'attack' and a warning. In reading this article, Cloud first praised Ham and his ministry for the good they do:
For example, Answers in Genesis and the Institute for Creation Research do a fantastic job of defending the literal Genesis account of creation against Darwinian evolution. Ken Ham’s Creation Museum is a masterpiece of biblical apologetics.
This isn't an attack, and the article doesn't focus just on Ken Ham and his minstry, but on others as well, all with the new evangelical mindset, and the willingness to often partner with about anyone who is of the same mind in one or two areas.
Like promise Keepers, which encapsulate Baptists, mormons, Catholics, pentecostals, et al, all joining under the banner of being better husbands-a worthy goal, but unbiblical joining together.
Or the old Moral Majority, protestants, Catholics, Mormons, etc, all joining hands to fight for certaingood political goals, but still, unbiblical.
I, myself have watched some creation-based videos by 7th-day adventists, and they are very good, but if I show them to my church, it is always with the warning against all the problems the group has doctrinally. And that being said, I would never go to a meeting, even just about creation vs Evolution done by Water Vieth, (the SDA fellow), because it would be an unbiblical joining together.
From his recent article, here are the questions he asks about whether or not someone is considered neoevangelical:
Wait. I mean, it sounds great.... but the thing is, he never claims to be a church. Also, where in the Bible does it say a Creationist Museum guy who goes around doing seminars has to have a written doctrinal statement outside of the Bible? Also all the other points...they are all pretty much extra-scriptural as far as the job that Ken Ham is doing. And what in the world does a public stand against Billy Graham have to do with any of this? Why does Billy Graham even matter? Huh? Wait...our church doesn't even have a statement against Billy Graham.....maybe we aren't real Baptists! Uh oh!
Billy Graham matters because he is the epitomy of new evangelical compromise, widely accepted by Christian leaders everywhere, and kind of the gold-standard for modern-day evangelists.
As for a doctrinal statement, personally, any site purporting to be a Christian ministry, I look for a doctrinal statement. Let the redeemed of the Lord say so-I want to know what a man or ministry believes before I consider his work.