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#336369 Sunday Sermons Tackle Zimmerman Verdict

Posted by Ukulelemike on 16 July 2013 - 11:30 AM

I do believe that sometimes a pastor should deal with current issues of the day-=Jesus and Paul did it, so should we. Why? Because we all need to look into the perfect truth of God's word when viewing things of the world, how we should respond, and expecially how not to fall into the media traps of emotionalism over facts and truth.


I recently preached on the subject of homosexual marriage-not an issue I usually feel the need to deal with, as all the church is in one accord, but particularly on not getting caught up in the rhetoric coming from one side or the other, but looking at it from a biblical perspective.


So it should be with this subject. Unfortunately what I see is a lot of emotional, race-related pap, while ignoring the laws and the facts of the case, as well as what the Bible says about such things.   We need to have Christians to be trained in using the Bible to judge all things, not Ruch Limbaugh or Shawn Hannity or the AP or CNN or Fox or so on...And where will they get that training if their churches aren't doing it?

#336351 Music In The Independent Baptist Churches

Posted by Ukulelemike on 16 July 2013 - 08:24 AM

Is there a perfect hymnal? I don't know that I've encountered a hymnal that didn't contain some hymns that were not doctrinally sound or had some of the hymns changed (as the Sword did several years ago).

I know-we use the Sword hymnals, and some of them I have changed the words back to the originals. One p[articular one that comes to mind is  

The Old Account", where they changed 'repent of all your sins' to 'be cleansed'. Now, we are certainly cleanse of our sins when saved, but Batists seem to like to remove repentance from the whole thing, which is where the quick-prayerism-thing comes from: no repentance=no salvation.

#336324 The Brilliance Of Gail Riplinger

Posted by Ukulelemike on 15 July 2013 - 09:36 PM

No, you've only proved where you stand, standing with the liberal crowd.

Come on, Jerry-so he disagrees with some of Cloud's work-that hardly makes him a liberal. Let's keep from name-calling, shall we?

#336320 Why Don't Baptist Fast

Posted by Ukulelemike on 15 July 2013 - 09:17 PM

No, I'll just go to the Cross of Christ, & kneel down, confess my sins, & worship my Savior. Rituals actually do not draw a person closer to God, for most they're just works, that plays on emotions, & makes the person feel better about their self, thinking they've really done something. 


1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Yes, Jesus died on the Cross being completely obedient to the Father & the Father set Him in that position, & there is no other way to the Father except though Him. And I promise you if you will go to that Cross & leave it all there, there's nothing else that can gain the closeness to God you'll have when you stand & walk away.

Nice sentiment, except its not some empty ritual-its quite biblical. Jesus fasted, Moses fasted, Paul fasted, Elijah fasted, David fasted. You're saying that they all just sought to play on the emotions of others, all just doing works to feel closer to God? Now, if one goes about it ritualistically, that's all it will be, but if one doesn't try it, you're missing out on an aspect of your relationship with Christ and your Christian walk that you'll never know otherwise.

#336225 Why Don't Baptist Fast

Posted by Ukulelemike on 15 July 2013 - 07:45 AM

I am a big believer in fasting, though as mentioned above, I don't do it as I should. My old pastor, Doug Fisher of Lighthouse in San Diego, did, that I know of, two 40-day fasts-neither of which he told anyone about, save family and some friends who fasted with him during parts of it as support. He only spoke of them well after the fact, as a training/preaching issue. Both were water-only fasts, and he recommends no one do it, unless they are absolutely certain it is God's will,


Fasting is surely a biblical practice, and I never heard of it until I became IFB. And of course we often neglect watching, which is to sleep what fasting is to food-giving up sleep for spiritual purposes. Fasting and prayer is always seen associated with seeking God's will in life and is always associated with prayer-to fast but not pray is to do only half the work.

#336131 Music In The Independent Baptist Churches

Posted by Ukulelemike on 14 July 2013 - 05:12 PM

It is o.k to get angry for the right reason. My short reply, I am using my phone. I am not sure about those that say it is a sin, the louder music. I say, if you cannot here the words of the songs they are no good.

Its worldly and carnal is what it is-it seeks to imitate the sensual music of the world, bringing with it its culture and inherent rebellion.

#336130 Music In The Independent Baptist Churches

Posted by Ukulelemike on 14 July 2013 - 05:11 PM


Many used to constantly ask me why I don't send my children there or outright say I'm wrong for not sending my children there. They don't think our church children/youth program is good enough; mostly because it's smaller but they blame that on our lack of willingness to turn our children/youth programs into entertainment clubs. Now that I'm down to one child still at home and they've grown tired of hearing my biblical reasons for wanting my children in our churches programs rather than the worldly entertainment driven stuff at the other church, it's rare anyone says anything to me about it all anymore.

Funny, part of my preaching this morning was on exactly this-alomst sounds like a line right out of the sermon!

#336117 Music In The Independent Baptist Churches

Posted by Ukulelemike on 14 July 2013 - 09:35 AM

I admit to anger, because CCM is one of the primary tools Satan uses today to destroy formerly godly churches. As Glory Land mentioned, the youth are encouraged to take roles in the church, but they are often apparently NOT overseen and given direction as to what is appropriate. We are so excited to get the younger folks into the work, which I am as well, but they need direction. One title for a pastor is 'Bishop", meaning 'Overseer"-we are to oversee all that is done in the church by lower levels of leadership-each leader in a church does not carry the same authority as the pastor-he is the one who has been tasked with overseeing what goes on-when the deacons were voted into place in Acts, they were under the authority of the Apostles, not just sent to do as they thought best. So our youth and even not-so-young leadership-they MUST be led, must be under authority, or the church will fall from where it stood. The pastor must lead.


BY the way, a modern hymn is not necessarily the same as a contemporary hymn. One it referring to time of writing, while the other refers to the style of the time. One if faddish, the other is not necessarily so.

#335828 Two Raptures? One Pre-Trib, Second Mid-Trib

Posted by Ukulelemike on 11 July 2013 - 04:19 PM

There was a sermon in the latest issue of The Sword of the Lord, July 5, 2013, that went into great detail why the rapture happens before the tribulations starts.


Descends into madness, why would a person think that? Because they disagree & cannot stand anyone to disagree with them.


And no, this topic has not descended into madness, & such statements should not be made, especially by the staff, & especially when its untrue.

I say it descends into madness because there is such a multiplicity of views of it, and I have too often seen it turn into an issue of great contention and separation, so much so that I just dislike getting into it. I know what I believe and hope I am wrong, but it took me over a year of study and learning a willingness to leave my former position to do it, so I have some passion about it. However, like we have seen on the Sons of God issue, it too easily becomes contentious, angry and offending in some cases, so I just prefer to generally stay out of it.


And, okay, maybe 'descends into madness' is a bit of an overstatement, but maybe its how I feel when in the midst of it. So much is ignored on so many sides, so much read into it when its not there, its quite maddening. Am I mad? perhaps, but I've heard all the best people are.

#335800 Way Of Life - Paul Chappell Misses The Fundamental Point In The Music Issue

Posted by Ukulelemike on 11 July 2013 - 01:16 PM

Oh, I agree there!  Defenders of CCM, though, try to blend the two, claiming that people who don't want the influence of CCM are just not liking modern hymnody.

And this is not different than the volutionists that insist, because creationists reject evolution, we must be rejecting of science in general, and so we are hypocrites for using a computer or driving a car. I ask them, how did the theory of evolution at all contribue to the invention of the car or the computer? Evolution has not contributed one iota of good to ANY study of any other sciences, nor any good to the world as a whole.  We like science, but dislike bad science.

#335784 Two Raptures? One Pre-Trib, Second Mid-Trib

Posted by Ukulelemike on 11 July 2013 - 11:21 AM

I'm SO done with this subject. Its fun for about two posts, then descends into madness.


The bottom line is, the Lord will come when He comes-we should be ready for some sort of tribulation beforehand, whether it be THE great Tribulation, or tribulation in general as evil men wax worse and worse, and let the Lord come when He does.

#335686 Way Of Life - Paul Chappell Misses The Fundamental Point In The Music Issue

Posted by Ukulelemike on 10 July 2013 - 04:34 PM

Here's what I get out of Cloud's ministry and writings:


  as a pastor, error is always creeping at the doors. Its no surprise to anyone that Satan has a hankerin' to get in a do damage to ministries. I don't see what Cloud does as 'criticizing', but 'warning', warning not onlt that particular ministry of problems creeping in, but also warning ME and the church I am priviledged to pastor, of the danger of those same errors and darts that may be coming my way. It helps remind me always of the potential that is present in ANY ministry, especially mine, and keeps me alert, sober and vigilant for my enemy, the devil.  I'm just a guy who, for reasons still unknown to me, the Lord placed into the most important place in Herlong: behind the pupit of a tiny, insignificant IFB church in the desert-an oasis, if you will, a place for others to come apart to rest in a desert place. And I know, from experience, how liable I am to fall into the wrong way-but with another voice out there always reminding me of MY vulnerabilities, I can be more careful at my labors.


I agree-I pray that the few CM songs at Lancaster are the exception, not the rule-yet my concern is their considering themselves to be above any reproach or criticism, and that attitude will surely bring about a fall. Especially since originally when the issue was brought up, it was claimed the music director brought the music in while Dr. Chapell was ill, and it was fixed when he was back, yet it has not only not been fixed, but it has continued, and been defended, so its not an issue that is unknown. There is an intention to continue to use it.

#335571 Way Of Life - Paul Chappell Misses The Fundamental Point In The Music Issue

Posted by Ukulelemike on 09 July 2013 - 08:21 PM

Mr. Cloud once again appears to singling out a popular fruit-bearing Baptist preacher to make accusation. We’ve established in previous dialogue that Mr. Cloud is a public critic of fruit-bearing ministries and an accuser of brethren.


Public Challenge:


Set me straight. Please show me a link to music (or anything) produced by Brother Chappell’s ministry that is sinful. Give me your best evidence. I personally have been on both sides of the fence regarding music. I’m confident that you won’t meet anyone that HATES ungodly music more than I do.


I have many personal friends that are spirit-filled men and women that have attended the recent leadership conference. I heard several comments from them praising the excellent music program there. So until someone provides me with a video or audio of sinful music, I’m siding with my friend’s discernment on this issue who attended the conference first hand.

You Do understand that he's not saying the usic is sinful, but that it is the building of a bridge to contemporary music by USING contemporary music which has been modified. The music itself is good, but they've taken CCM and made it sound better. The concern, based on history, is that it wil begin a downward slide into full-blown CCM as people enjoy the music and begin investigating into the other music produced by the same people, and getting into the straight CCM


I've kept up on all the writings Cloud has done on Lancaster. He has been very consistent on what he has said. And if you read this, he sopke highly of all the excellent things Chappel wrote and of all the good he has done. Obviously a guy who has been a long-time missionary in somewhere like Nepal is not against fruit-bearing ministries-but even large, fruit-bearing ministries need to beware what they do, because even they can fall. Tennessee Temple is a good example-once a great fruit-bearing ministry, now a full-blown CCM rock and roll church. And there are many other examples of the same.


And of course, the concern is also because its not just his chrch being affected once Pastor Chappel wrintes a book and spreads the same philosophies, especially the idea of disregarding any critics-I take heed to critics and investigate into what they criticize because I know I'm human, and I know any God-faring, truth-preaching, fruit-bearing church is a target of Satan, and things can slip by. I may find myself vindicated each time, but I still take heed. when we believe ourselves above criticism, a fall is inevitable.


I love Brother Chappel, his father Larry Chappel was my first IFB pastor in Long Beach, so I feel there's a connection in some manner. But why should a church search the sewers of CCM to modify for church use, when nthere is so much good, godly music available already? 

#335514 Way Of Life - Paul Chappell Misses The Fundamental Point In The Music Issue

Posted by Ukulelemike on 09 July 2013 - 01:25 PM

This brings up a larger, more important issue, and that's one of the passing of the torch from one pastor to another. With or without CCM we continually see good churches go a different direction with the introduction of a new pastor.


Many pastors and churches are doing a very poor job of preparing for the eventual replacement of their current pastor with a new pastor. Pastors and churches are failing to find, disciple and train men to be prepared to take the role of senior pastor and maintain consistency in the church with the change.


Instead, we so often see a new pastor hastily brought into a church, one that no one really knows, one that doesn't know that church, one which takes the church in a different direction. There is also the problem of those pastors who choose weak associate pastors so they don't feel threatened and have associate pastors they fail to train and work closely with, so when one of these takes over the church they are ill equipped to consistently carry the church forward, and very often have formed some dislike for the way the old senior pastor did things and they want to radically change things in the church in order to exert their power and prove they are in control.


Due to a lack of proper secession of leadership in our churches we often see good churches turn to worldly music, MVs, lowering or dropping of biblical standards of dress and conduct, and other issues which weakens churches, turns hot churches lukewarm, or eventually makes a good church into a worldly church.

And I was thinking about just that.


When I became the pastor at my church, I was, more or less, an outsider. I had been there guest/interim-preaching for a couple months, so it wasn't a sudden thing, but its true that after more than 10 years no one had been trained up to take over, which was odd considering how old the pastor was when he started. As I have been there, any time that someone is there for a while that seems very interested in the work, in knowing more, I will take extra time to meet with them and train them, as they will accept-sadly, I have lost all of them, my last two young men I lost to their moving to find jobs outside the area, before that, a young man who got excited, but lost his discernment and began jumping here and there, now going to one of the most charismatic churches in the area. And THAT began with, believe it or not, an illness that caused him to somehwta lose his sanity for a while, get depressed, and confused-his family began bouncing around for a while, and when his health was regained and he was to his senses, he decided to just continue with the decisions he made while ill. A bit strange.


But the point is, yes, my desire is to have someone who can step in should I leave for one reason or another-and my prayers have been aimed that way. I'm kind of watching for someone younger, who is willing to take to training to do things the right way, and not fall into the contemporary thinking. Not been easy, but still working at it.

And yes, its also important that we teach them not to change thinhgs for the sake of change or power. I think a good thing is, if a pastor is leaving for some reason, other than death, they should stay for a while and give a bit of guidance in private, but also show good support for the new pastor so there will be no doubt in anyone's mind of who IS the pastor, but the old pastor should also leave as soon as necessary so as not to cause a division in loyalties. That happened in my church and we finally had to pray for the Lord to remove the old pastor, as there was definitely strife and a lack of accord. When tye left, things got calm and began to move forward.

#335482 Way Of Life - Paul Chappell Misses The Fundamental Point In The Music Issue

Posted by Ukulelemike on 09 July 2013 - 07:40 AM

I think Paul Chappel is a pretty strong pastor and leader, and while pastor at Lancaster, he will be able to contain to negative effects of the adapted CCM. However, I think what Bro. Chappel is missing is: what hapens when he is gone? There are numerous examples of the CCM slowly moving in under a very consevative preacher, who keeps it in more or less of a strangle-hold, and keeps its influence contained, but when that pastor passes on, that spirit is let loose and within a decade, that formerly godly, conservative fundamental church is completely contemporary. This will happen at Lancaster if a change is not made because Pastor Chappel can only maintain discipline while he is around, but if he Lord tarries and a new pastor takes over, what will keep him from following the natural path? Its happening all around us and they will not be immune.

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