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wretched

Member Since 31 Dec 2012
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 10:37 PM
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Posts I've Made

In Topic: Opportunity Or Not

Yesterday, 08:24 PM

 

John 3:1 ¶  There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2  The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9  Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10  Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
 
Just a thought.  How could Nicodemus be expect to have known about the new birth if it isn't in the OT?  That was all the scripture that he had.

 

 

God changed His dealings with man again in the NT because even the brightest couldn't see it without the indwelling Spirit. Most saved can't figure out the NT et al WITH the indwelling Spirit. This is why God poured out His Spirit after Christ's Resurrection to aid man to come to Him and to understand Him after they come. It is painfully obvious man was hopeless in understanding God without the Spirit.

 

You seem well versed in the OT Scriptures, could you have figured it out even now? It makes logical sense that Jesus was demonstrating this point and not the expectation. Nicodemus was a natural man, not a born again, indwelt by the Spirit man.

 

The natural man can make no sense of the Gospel as clearly laid out and step by step explained in the NT without the Spirit's aid and it is not a hidden mystery as in the OT, it is plain as day and clear in black and white. The few that understood the Lord before the NT were severally aided by God through mighty wonders, signs and miracles and still struggled to keep the faith in between those signs, wonders and miracles. Even throughout Christ's 3.5 year ministry, He still demonstrated signs, wonders and miracles before the Spirit was poured out to aid in man's belief.

In Topic: Opportunity Or Not

25 September 2014 - 09:13 PM

Just a thought....

 

Since Jesus Christ, before he was birthed into humanity, was God, and Enoch 'walked with God' and God took him out of this life, assuming he went to 'be' with God, that kinda looks like he 'believed in the Lord with all of his heart', a true picture of a 'born again' person, it seems to me this is one instance.

 

The next one? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness? Sounds like a 'born again' person to me. (We are children of Abraham by faith?)

 

Just a thought...

 

[But this is from the view of one who doesn't, once again, follow the teachings of Dispensationalism.]

 

I see that you are trying to relate no description of a new birth in these verses to the new birth clearly described repeatedly in the NT.

 

Realize these OT gents actually knew God in a literal sense and that should help any reasonable person with their belief. Albeit it did not help all of them or Israel much when God wasn't demonstrating His Presence and Power continuously and literally. They forgot quickly and turned to false gods as soon as trouble came. Makes sense when there was no indwelling Spirit - get it? It aint rocket science folks, it is actually pretty clear if you study the Word as a whole in chronological order understanding when and who passages are directed to, etc.

 

The only reason I post is to refute incorrect doctrine from condescending types on here who think they are learned because they parrot men's teachings, quoting one muttenhead's work after another. Seems many go to the greatest extremes to study everything but the Word.

 

I challenge anyone to put down these "merchandisers of God's" books/interpretations and study only God's Word for one year, turn off the tv, the radio and listen only to God's Word for a year. I guarantee you will abandon your current ideas on allot of subjects and I also guarantee your stands on the most important fundamentals will be strengthened greatly.

In Topic: Opportunity Or Not

25 September 2014 - 11:38 AM

Please at least acknowledge that hindsight from the NT is also inspired scripture, Therefore it does directly speak to the issue. The fact that you cannot find what you are looking for in the exact way you want to see it from the OT does not in any way detract from the truth of NT teaching when it speaks to the same issue pointing back to the OT.

 

There are many many things that were only vaguely seen in the OT that needed clarification in the NT. To completely rule out scripture from the NT that explains the issue you were addressing simply because it is NT, is not rightly dividing scripture.

 

Pentecost has no relevance to this subject Wretched. It was a one time happing, never to be repeated. I don't understand why you even inserted it here.

 

Ok, one last time:

 

The verse you quote in context references certain job (s) God had for the prophets, nothing more. Had it been more than that it would have been recorded in the OT. No where does the Lord say in this context anything about new birth for these prophets. Nowhere is the new birth recorded in regards to the prophets, Moses or any OT saint neither in the NT or the OT. You misapply new birth out of context to this verse friend.

 

I say this in kindness but your posts are no surprise Jim, it is the same ifb (easy to explain and swallow) doctrine taught to new converts and children for decades but it has never been right.

 

Your statement on Pentecost as being irrelvant is pretty amazing however, but even that doesn't surprise me

 

Sorry guy, we just disagree, no biggy, who cares. Matter of fact, you get to win the argument...hows that?

In Topic: Opportunity Or Not

25 September 2014 - 10:04 AM

 1Pet. 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

 

We see here  that the OT prophets were indwelt of the Holy Spirit.

 

If they had the Spirit of Christ in them, they were saved. Once you are saved you possess eternal life. “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life.”  It would not be eternal if it could be lost.

 

So I would have to refute the statement you made saying that, "nowhere in the OT is there any hint of eternal life."

 

More hindsight from the NT is what you quote and unclear in total Jim. I challenge to you find one indication in the OT of this. Surely if the new birth for all that believe on Jesus 1- 4000 years before His earthly birth were truth, then there would be at least a hint of it in the OT.

 

What you quote out of the NT indicates that the writers God used to record the OT had the Spirit in them at the time and for the writing but this in no way indicates new birth, a sealing or the permanent eternal security we enjoy in our time friend. I most cerainly believe the Spirit indwelt certain people for certain purposes (this can be found in the OT) prior to Pentecost but this in NOT close to the same thing as Pentecost when God said He will "pour out HIs Spirit over all flesh"

In Topic: Opportunity Or Not

24 September 2014 - 08:38 PM

I'll bite. :wink If the Holy Spirit is unable to do His regenerative work, then no one can be saved. Anything else is a works salvation, and we know clearly that salvation is 'not of works'. I see no reason for this universal principle to be reversed during the tribulation era. The key verse for the Spirit being removed is "He that now letteth will let until he be taken out of the way."  Rather than that being an indication that the Spirit is not present during the tribulation (actually, He's God - how can He not be present?), I would see that to be an indication that He is no longer doing His work to hinder Satan (let=hinder), so that Satan is allowed free reign on the earth during this time.

 

Here is the deal on why I think this way: You touched on the removing of the Spirit evidence (notice I am not saying doctrine or being authoritative) but I am using preponderance of evidence which is good enough for the army and UCMJ.

 

The evidence I feel points to no regeneration of the Spirit in the OT and all the way up to Pentecost. I think Scripture points to new birth for believers on that day for the first time ever in Scripture.

Jesus Himself indicated that even His Apostles were not yet born again prior to Pentecost. "when you are converted, strengthen your brethren".

 

Notice I am not saying works but I am saying the Scripture overwhelmingly indicates that there was no regeneration of the Spirit, no new birth, no sealing of the Spirit prior to Pentecost. Certainly God saved only by faith but He also provided signs, wonders and miracles as helps prior to Pentecost. But nowhere in the OT or in Revelation is there a hint of eternal security, new birth, etc...

 

During the trib, Scripture indicates God will remove the Spirit from the earth and Revelation indicates signs, wonders and miracles will return but it also indicates that all will have to keep their faith until death or the end of the trib and NOT receive the mark

 

That is the nutshell and i wish I had the mental energy to write in more detail but it has been one of those days again and they have been getting worse and worse for several months (more involved working environment on the job).

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