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wretched

Member Since 31 Dec 2012
Online Last Active Today, 08:18 PM
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#397460 Questioning One's Belief Or View Of Scriptural Meanings

Posted by wretched on Yesterday, 09:46 PM

 

In your list of "systems" which you say contain holes you did not list pre-trib.  I assume that is because you "believe" that their is no possibility that your interpretations can be wrong in any fashion.  I assume this because you insist that all other ideas be banned from the forum.  I am not perfect in my wisdom and no one else on this forum is either.  I do not enter into the eschatology debates because I don't think I will have all the answers while my mind still occupies this mortal flesh.  This world is what it is because men who could get along with each other would rather fight about their petty little differences, which in the eternal scheme of things don't amount to a hill of beans.  

 

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.  35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
 
It does not matter what a saved person believes when it comes to the big, important, all consuming, arguments about when our Lord is coming.  When He comes we should be found doing His work and not fighting one another.  What are our priorities anyway?  Protecting our reputations for having great amounts of knowledge and boosting our egos, is that what we are about?  I pray not! 

 

 

Although I appreciate and understand exactly what you are saying here Pilgrim, I do need to also point out the scores of warnings throughout the NT of false teachers, false gospels, antichrists and etc. To discern, mark and avoid.
 
Having said that, I think we should take this or any forum with a grain of salt. If we are going to waste precious time on the internet instead of spreading the Gospel and making disciples in our local church as commanded then we might as well let it fly. The mods can clean it up if need be and it makes for fun reading.
 
Some have tolerated preterists/ism for so many months now, they are actually confused about it's validity.
 
Wake up folks, in order to accept preterism you have to believe you are currently living in Christ's 1000 year earthly kingdom. What is the problem here? That premise alone is the red flag, dead-giveaway that the entire idea is devilish poppycock.
 
Coventanter can paste every page from the internet and books (not Bible) he learned this from but it will not change that basic premise.
 
It is not my place to say whether a man is saved or not. But we are to know them by their fruits and there is some stinky fruit in this preterist nonsense.



#397459 Questioning One's Belief Or View Of Scriptural Meanings

Posted by wretched on Yesterday, 09:04 PM

Indeed, whatever truth we have on these matters is in Scripture. Most would agree upon that point. The difference comes in peoples understanding of just what certain verses or passages mean. In some cases we could have half a dozen born again Christians in a room all reading the same verses and each having a different understanding of just what they believe the verses mean.

 

The back and forth postings between those already firmly decided on different views aren't very helpful; especially when they seem to always have those who can't help but posting in the flesh in ways that add bad witness to an already contentious thread.

 

The partial preterists aren't going to sway the committed pre-tribs and the pre-tribs aren't going to sway the committed partial preterists. There is really no good point in these two groups posting back and forth at one another.

 

True, the answers are in Scripture.

 

False, on put 6 believers in a room with Scripture and no influence. Zero would come up with preterism. That is man made only and obscure as an understatement.

 

I have said it before and will again. I have been a member of more Bible believing churches in more places on this planet than anyone I have ever heard of and I have never heard a peep of this heresy until this forum.

 

I think some folks spend way too much time on the internet where you can read of any whacked out idea in the world. Because it is on the internet spouted out by two or three muttenheads doesn't make it anywhere near legitimate.

 

Yaw can keep tolerating this bunk if you want to, I won't. I will yell nay every time I see it

 




#397191 Concerning Daniel 9:24-27

Posted by wretched on 16 December 2014 - 10:17 PM

Man, I dislike this forum sometimes BUT I JUST CANT HELP BUT LOOK AT IT




#395258 Famine Coming Soon

Posted by wretched on 29 November 2014 - 11:42 PM

One prophesied famine according to Mat. 24:7 was prophesied & reported in Acts 11:27-30 

 

You will find some earthquakes reported also.

 

Nice little tidbit of grey evidence.

 

Unfortunately for all who have been duped into preterism, its premise and central point of belief is that we are currently living in the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth for the last 2000 years.

 

It is outrageously ignorant for anyone to buy into it. How pathetic would a christian be to actually believe that this cursed socioeconomic world system with its unprecedented sin is Christ's earthy Kingdom.

 

I know John81 wants to believe so badly but get a grip guy, covenanter and his buddies are false.

 

I know it is a lazy relief for preterists to know that all work is done, no worry of sinning, or soulwinning. We are here already...come on folks




#393994 Matthew 24

Posted by wretched on 18 November 2014 - 12:19 PM

Wow, what a diverse group in this thread. Sometimes these make me think of a rainbow coalition rally.

 

Well, maybe not that diverse  :)




#393901 Sheep, Shepherd, Or Wolf?

Posted by wretched on 15 November 2014 - 10:24 PM

I AM LAUGHING OUT LOUD over these biased, agenda-ed videos. I had a minute to watch them and and surprisingly disappointed in the wisdom I take for granted by some.

 

I could care less about Ruckman but can say that I have see him preach and enjoyed it every time. The same and more so about Hutson. However I have never read any of either of their writings and I have never heard of Hovind.

 

BUT, these videos are exactly the kind of examples I mean when I say you cannot trust the writings and now lets include the videos of men.

 

How blatantly twisted are the facts in "roast or slander" videos of other people. Come on, I expect women to take this kind of play on emotions as fact, but men?

 

Whether you love or hate these muttenheads is irrelevant. What is relevant is that who cares what any of them say or their critics and why does it affect you so??? They are just dudes.

 

Allot of people on here throw the words heresy and heretic around like candy. I wonder if any have the first clue what the words really mean?




#393171 Hell Is A Real Place

Posted by wretched on 06 November 2014 - 12:12 PM

Ok, I have to ask after a loud laugh although this subject is no laughing matter.

 

WHAT IS WITH THE PINEAPPLE SHOVING REFERENCE. I have never heard this one.




#391852 Understanding Hebrews - 3

Posted by wretched on 22 October 2014 - 11:19 AM

 

 

Living by faith did not begin with Pentecost, as Job demonstrates.

 

Job? The entire Bible from Genesis through Revelation demonstrates living by faith as the only way to please God. This is an odd ending to this post unless you are somehow confusing living by faith with the renewal/regeneration of the Holy Spirit which did begin for believers at Pentecost.

 

Threads like this make it evident to me that some who follow strange fables like preterism could be doing so simply by a lack of comprehension and perhaps not due to evil surmisings. Only God knows for sure. I mean, you seem like a nice enough fella but many times restraint is demonstrated by personality and not by the Spirit.




#390721 Understanding Hebrews -2

Posted by wretched on 10 October 2014 - 03:02 PM

Good points all - well not really

 

Take it with a grain of salt and learn to laugh at yourselves because after all, everyone else is laughing at you :) 

 

Seriously though, I disagree with this statement John:  The various debates over different eschatological views has long carried on and has hashed and rehashed the same material over and over and yet not one particular view has been able to present a 100% airtight case that makes every point of that view clearly accurate and true.

 

There is no logic in that statement simply because noone has an airtight case over any Scripture, we believe it by faith and faith only. Get in the Book and stop "considering" what any muttenhead is teaching. Noone in this thread is a babe, why are you still considering what men say. Your local pastors/elders are the only men authorized by God to give you lessons. And even those require searching for yourself in the Word to make sure they are right.

 

Bible study is not 5 minutes of forced reading of the Word to get through it and then you read some dude's interpretation of it for an hour. That is the kind of Bible study that has kept ignorance alive in IFB circles for generations now. Not to mention isolated pockets of whacky ideas like preterism. Not to mention men worship, as had developed in some of the biggest IFB churches in the world back in the 80s and 90s and is reemerging today in some areas (we meatsacks have very short memories).

 

I will tell you how those things happened, when you started buying some dude's books and put his muttenhead ideas beside God's Word to help you learn. It went to his head and the rest is history.

 

Get alone with God and stop searching men's ideas.




#388710 Historians Trace The Earliest Church Labeled "baptist" Back To 1609

Posted by wretched on 23 September 2014 - 08:22 PM

Hi everybody :)

A couple of issues: Salyan is right in regards to me not addressing anyone in particular unless of course you intimate that you follow John the Baptist in "anything".

 

I am familiar with some of the books you gents keep quoting or referring to as if they were authoritative. I abandoned reading men's slanted views on historical events long ago including baptist history.

Hopefully one day you folks will realize that the gents who wrote these books are, pardon my french, muttenheads just like us who wrote their interpretations of these historical events in their own slanted viewpoints just like all of man's written history. Some with evil motives, some with honorable motives but all wanted their money for their "work".

 

One of you quotes ones man's work as if authoritative and another of you writes about some other muttenhead's work as authoritative. NONE are authoritative by any stretch of the imagination.

 

You waste your time trying to be learned in man's interpretation of anything.

 

You want to know history un-slanted, Read your Bible, praying.

 

That is all I am trying to convey here.




#388642 Historians Trace The Earliest Church Labeled "baptist" Back To 1609

Posted by wretched on 22 September 2014 - 09:57 PM

Wow, now this is the strangest thread yet. Some are fantasizing in the flesh over your adopted title of baptist? Claiming your doctrine came from John the Baptist. Really?

 

No one I have ever known has followed John the Baptist in doctrine. If you do know someone, they are truly confused and/or nuts. Good grief people.

 

Nowhere in the Books of Acts were believers referred to as Baptists. If you are born again, you are a Christian, Bible based and real (not the label the world put on the masses of lost who know the name Jesus).

 

There is no need to blindly grasp at straws like claiming modern IFBs are followers of John the Baptist. You can identify with modern Baptist statements of faith without that nonsense. Put down these filthy merchandizing books about the Word and study the Word only.

 

You want to be a follower of John the Baptist, have at it but don't count yourself Christian also. John pointed to Jesus Christ and said to follow Him.




#387591 Rough Couple Of Weeks On The Farm

Posted by wretched on 15 September 2014 - 08:46 PM

You hobby farmers :) I have a dachund that chases and eats whole everything that runs from him, rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks. Cats either out run him or stand him down though.




#384774 Dispensations

Posted by wretched on 30 August 2014 - 08:26 PM

 

Remember NN, I came into this argument late. Nowhere have I (nor anyone else in this thread) stated that keeping the law was necessary nor that works were necessary.  

 

Post 37.

 

However it is Scriptural true that prior to the pouring out of the Spirit, any and all true faith was demonstrated by works as opposed to our time in which the Spirit's regeneration is the demonstration of faith in the Gospel.

 

The issue also isn't your last statement about stumbling, the issue is that noone in the OT had any idea what you are talking about or the OT would clearly state that somewhere. You are reading hindsight and thinking the idea could be commonly known when it was in fact completely unknown (a mystery). No stumbling, just unknown. Believing God when He showed Himself to man was the only thing known at the time.

 

The Bible is the one that says it; I'm just repeating what the Bible says...

 

Isaiah 8:13-14

13   Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
14   And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

 

Isaiah 28:16
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

 

Romans 9:31-33

31   But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32   Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33   As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

Come on folks, think for yourselves about it and put away the simplistic fairy tales. Salvation as we know it since Pentecost didn't even exist in the OT. Those saints had to stay faithful until death. NOT necessarily workful, but FAITHful.

 

That IS work-based.

 

Oh and yes, during the tribulation, it will be the same way. There will be no Spirit regeneration, no born again, no saved (as we know it). Those saints will once again have to keep themselves until the day of redemption at death but they too will have the helps of real signs, real visions, real miracles. Not the emotional charismatic BUNK we claim as signs and miracles during our time.

 

That's works-based too. 

 

I know allot to think about when you are used to the whole "it has always been believing in Jesus" nonsense nowhere in the context in God's Word. A few misinterpreted verses taken out of context and shouted over and over and over again by lazy preachers who don't want to really look into it doesn't make true Bible doctrine and history.

 

I humbly suggest that you go back and read all of my entries in this thread. All that I have consistently said is...

  1. that they were saved by grace through faith
  2. they believed God, and it was accounted unto them for righteousness

The closest that I came to what you are saying that I'm advocating is...

 

 

Those Old Testament saints who believed God were only taken to heaven after Christ's death, burial, and resurrection; therefore, their righteousness (and salvation) is directly tied to the gospel.

 

...and I stand by that statement.

 

 

Ok brother, I do understand your stand on this. I bought it too for 25 years because it really doesn't matter to us now as long as we have been convicted by the Spirit when hearing the Gospel and believed.

 

It is the easy way and the lazy way to explain when questions come and I will admit not worth looking into much when sharing the Gospel. You folks win.




#384595 Dispensations

Posted by wretched on 29 August 2014 - 09:00 PM

Or...it could make those who understand that the Bible is clear (even in the Old Testament) that works have never, do never, and will never have absolutely anything whatsoever, in any shape, form, or fashion...to do with salvation...it could make those who understand this, see that the Bible is clear that righteousness comes only by grace through faith. The New Testament even tells us this in Hebrews 11. How those who propose a work's-based salvation in the OT (and the future) can miss this is beyond me. By faith...by faith...by faith!

 

The Old Testament saints weren't regenerated by the Holy Spirit as far as the biblical record shows; however, they believed what God said, and it was accounted unto them for righteousness. Today, we believe what God said (the record of his Son), and it's accounted unto us for righteousness. Those Old Testament saints who believed God were only taken to heaven after Christ's death, burial, and resurrection; therefore, their righteousness (and salvation) is directly tied to the gospel.

 

And I'm sorry to disagree with you, but the visions, signs, and wonders didn't make people believe...or keep them believing...

 

Numbers 14:11
And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?

 

Deuteronomy 1:31-32
31   And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the LORD thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place.
32   Yet in this thing ye did not believe the LORD your God,

 

Mr. Blue said that the main subject of the Old Testament was about a coming kingdom. No, the Old Testament is about Jesus through and through.

 

Sadly, those who hold to hyper-dispensationalism stumble at the same stumblingstone as Israel...they sadly can't see the simplicity of salvation by grace through faith in the Old Testament, because they can't systematically connect the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ to the Old Testament...so they try to make works become an element of salvation. The promised redeemer is there...throughout the Old Testament...but people stumble over it.

 

Remember NN, I came into this argument late. Nowhere have I (nor anyone else in this thread) stated that keeping the law was necessary nor that works were necessary.

 

However it is Scriptural true that prior to the pouring out of the Spirit, any and all true faith was demonstrated by works as opposed to our time in which the Spirit's regeneration is the demonstration of faith in the Gospel.

 

The issue also isn't your last statement about stumbling, the issue is that noone in the OT had any idea what you are talking about or the OT would clearly state that somewhere. You are reading hindsight and thinking the idea could be commonly known when it was in fact completely unknown (a mystery). No stumbling, just unknown. Believing God when He showed Himself to man was the only thing known at the time.

 

Come on folks, think for yourselves about it and put away the simplistic fairy tales. Salvation as we know it since Pentecost didn't even exist in the OT. Those saints had to stay faithful until death. NOT necessarily workful, but FAITHful.

 

Oh and yes, during the tribulation, it will be the same way. There will be no Spirit regeneration, no born again, no saved (as we know it). Those saints will once again have to keep themselves until the day of redemption at death but they too will have the helps of real signs, real visions, real miracles. Not the emotional charismatic BUNK we claim as signs and miracles during our time.

 

I know allot to think about when you are used to the whole "it has always been believing in Jesus" nonsense nowhere in the context in God's Word. A few misinterpreted verses taken out of context and shouted over and over and over again by lazy preachers who don't want to really look into it doesn't make true Bible doctrine and history.




#384340 Dispensations

Posted by wretched on 27 August 2014 - 09:48 PM

I know man, right.

 

What is wrong with those people to believe the Bible on this.

 

After all Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sara, Issac, Jacob all had the OT to study about Jesus' death, burial and Resurrection or did they? No they didn't.

 

What I mean is Moses, Sampson, Rahab and the prophets all had the NT to study of Jesus or did they? No, they didn't.

 

In fact, they had only God who revealed Himself to them personally through many signs, visions, dreams and miracles and they believed God and kept believing God and it was counted to them as righteousness. Make no mistake though folks, it was only the signs, visions, wonders and miracles that kept them believing. There was no indwelling Spirit.

 

It is after all clearly presented in the OT how each of the above were regenerated by the Holy Spirit and sealed until their day of redemption. Look for yourselves, in the OT books of...books of...wait a minute, it ain't in there anywhere. The NT clearly describes that they looked "forward" in hindsight as written chronologically. Those who looked forward to God's promises at the time had no idea of the details, they just believed God when God told them He would provide redemption for all mankind.

 

This overly simplistic view of the Bible is good to keep the lazy, "don't overload me with God's Word" Christians happy and coming I guess. The last thing we want to ever do is make the average Christian think about their faith.

 

This ignorant declaration that folks in the OT were ever born again only feeds the enemies of God.






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