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wretched

Member Since 31 Dec 2012
Online Last Active Today, 06:27 PM
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#391852 Understanding Hebrews - 3

Posted by wretched on 22 October 2014 - 11:19 AM

 

 

Living by faith did not begin with Pentecost, as Job demonstrates.

 

Job? The entire Bible from Genesis through Revelation demonstrates living by faith as the only way to please God. This is an odd ending to this post unless you are somehow confusing living by faith with the renewal/regeneration of the Holy Spirit which did begin for believers at Pentecost.

 

Threads like this make it evident to me that some who follow strange fables like preterism could be doing so simply by a lack of comprehension and perhaps not due to evil surmisings. Only God knows for sure. I mean, you seem like a nice enough fella but many times restraint is demonstrated by personality and not by the Spirit.




#390721 Understanding Hebrews -2

Posted by wretched on 10 October 2014 - 03:02 PM

Good points all - well not really

 

Take it with a grain of salt and learn to laugh at yourselves because after all, everyone else is laughing at you :) 

 

Seriously though, I disagree with this statement John:  The various debates over different eschatological views has long carried on and has hashed and rehashed the same material over and over and yet not one particular view has been able to present a 100% airtight case that makes every point of that view clearly accurate and true.

 

There is no logic in that statement simply because noone has an airtight case over any Scripture, we believe it by faith and faith only. Get in the Book and stop "considering" what any muttenhead is teaching. Noone in this thread is a babe, why are you still considering what men say. Your local pastors/elders are the only men authorized by God to give you lessons. And even those require searching for yourself in the Word to make sure they are right.

 

Bible study is not 5 minutes of forced reading of the Word to get through it and then you read some dude's interpretation of it for an hour. That is the kind of Bible study that has kept ignorance alive in IFB circles for generations now. Not to mention isolated pockets of whacky ideas like preterism. Not to mention men worship, as had developed in some of the biggest IFB churches in the world back in the 80s and 90s and is reemerging today in some areas (we meatsacks have very short memories).

 

I will tell you how those things happened, when you started buying some dude's books and put his muttenhead ideas beside God's Word to help you learn. It went to his head and the rest is history.

 

Get alone with God and stop searching men's ideas.




#388710 Historians Trace The Earliest Church Labeled "baptist" Back To 1609

Posted by wretched on 23 September 2014 - 08:22 PM

Hi everybody :)

A couple of issues: Salyan is right in regards to me not addressing anyone in particular unless of course you intimate that you follow John the Baptist in "anything".

 

I am familiar with some of the books you gents keep quoting or referring to as if they were authoritative. I abandoned reading men's slanted views on historical events long ago including baptist history.

Hopefully one day you folks will realize that the gents who wrote these books are, pardon my french, muttenheads just like us who wrote their interpretations of these historical events in their own slanted viewpoints just like all of man's written history. Some with evil motives, some with honorable motives but all wanted their money for their "work".

 

One of you quotes ones man's work as if authoritative and another of you writes about some other muttenhead's work as authoritative. NONE are authoritative by any stretch of the imagination.

 

You waste your time trying to be learned in man's interpretation of anything.

 

You want to know history un-slanted, Read your Bible, praying.

 

That is all I am trying to convey here.




#388642 Historians Trace The Earliest Church Labeled "baptist" Back To 1609

Posted by wretched on 22 September 2014 - 09:57 PM

Wow, now this is the strangest thread yet. Some are fantasizing in the flesh over your adopted title of baptist? Claiming your doctrine came from John the Baptist. Really?

 

No one I have ever known has followed John the Baptist in doctrine. If you do know someone, they are truly confused and/or nuts. Good grief people.

 

Nowhere in the Books of Acts were believers referred to as Baptists. If you are born again, you are a Christian, Bible based and real (not the label the world put on the masses of lost who know the name Jesus).

 

There is no need to blindly grasp at straws like claiming modern IFBs are followers of John the Baptist. You can identify with modern Baptist statements of faith without that nonsense. Put down these filthy merchandizing books about the Word and study the Word only.

 

You want to be a follower of John the Baptist, have at it but don't count yourself Christian also. John pointed to Jesus Christ and said to follow Him.




#387591 Rough Couple Of Weeks On The Farm

Posted by wretched on 15 September 2014 - 08:46 PM

You hobby farmers :) I have a dachund that chases and eats whole everything that runs from him, rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks. Cats either out run him or stand him down though.




#384774 Dispensations

Posted by wretched on 30 August 2014 - 08:26 PM

 

Remember NN, I came into this argument late. Nowhere have I (nor anyone else in this thread) stated that keeping the law was necessary nor that works were necessary.  

 

Post 37.

 

However it is Scriptural true that prior to the pouring out of the Spirit, any and all true faith was demonstrated by works as opposed to our time in which the Spirit's regeneration is the demonstration of faith in the Gospel.

 

The issue also isn't your last statement about stumbling, the issue is that noone in the OT had any idea what you are talking about or the OT would clearly state that somewhere. You are reading hindsight and thinking the idea could be commonly known when it was in fact completely unknown (a mystery). No stumbling, just unknown. Believing God when He showed Himself to man was the only thing known at the time.

 

The Bible is the one that says it; I'm just repeating what the Bible says...

 

Isaiah 8:13-14

13   Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
14   And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

 

Isaiah 28:16
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

 

Romans 9:31-33

31   But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32   Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33   As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

Come on folks, think for yourselves about it and put away the simplistic fairy tales. Salvation as we know it since Pentecost didn't even exist in the OT. Those saints had to stay faithful until death. NOT necessarily workful, but FAITHful.

 

That IS work-based.

 

Oh and yes, during the tribulation, it will be the same way. There will be no Spirit regeneration, no born again, no saved (as we know it). Those saints will once again have to keep themselves until the day of redemption at death but they too will have the helps of real signs, real visions, real miracles. Not the emotional charismatic BUNK we claim as signs and miracles during our time.

 

That's works-based too. 

 

I know allot to think about when you are used to the whole "it has always been believing in Jesus" nonsense nowhere in the context in God's Word. A few misinterpreted verses taken out of context and shouted over and over and over again by lazy preachers who don't want to really look into it doesn't make true Bible doctrine and history.

 

I humbly suggest that you go back and read all of my entries in this thread. All that I have consistently said is...

  1. that they were saved by grace through faith
  2. they believed God, and it was accounted unto them for righteousness

The closest that I came to what you are saying that I'm advocating is...

 

 

Those Old Testament saints who believed God were only taken to heaven after Christ's death, burial, and resurrection; therefore, their righteousness (and salvation) is directly tied to the gospel.

 

...and I stand by that statement.

 

 

Ok brother, I do understand your stand on this. I bought it too for 25 years because it really doesn't matter to us now as long as we have been convicted by the Spirit when hearing the Gospel and believed.

 

It is the easy way and the lazy way to explain when questions come and I will admit not worth looking into much when sharing the Gospel. You folks win.




#384595 Dispensations

Posted by wretched on 29 August 2014 - 09:00 PM

Or...it could make those who understand that the Bible is clear (even in the Old Testament) that works have never, do never, and will never have absolutely anything whatsoever, in any shape, form, or fashion...to do with salvation...it could make those who understand this, see that the Bible is clear that righteousness comes only by grace through faith. The New Testament even tells us this in Hebrews 11. How those who propose a work's-based salvation in the OT (and the future) can miss this is beyond me. By faith...by faith...by faith!

 

The Old Testament saints weren't regenerated by the Holy Spirit as far as the biblical record shows; however, they believed what God said, and it was accounted unto them for righteousness. Today, we believe what God said (the record of his Son), and it's accounted unto us for righteousness. Those Old Testament saints who believed God were only taken to heaven after Christ's death, burial, and resurrection; therefore, their righteousness (and salvation) is directly tied to the gospel.

 

And I'm sorry to disagree with you, but the visions, signs, and wonders didn't make people believe...or keep them believing...

 

Numbers 14:11
And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?

 

Deuteronomy 1:31-32
31   And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the LORD thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place.
32   Yet in this thing ye did not believe the LORD your God,

 

Mr. Blue said that the main subject of the Old Testament was about a coming kingdom. No, the Old Testament is about Jesus through and through.

 

Sadly, those who hold to hyper-dispensationalism stumble at the same stumblingstone as Israel...they sadly can't see the simplicity of salvation by grace through faith in the Old Testament, because they can't systematically connect the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ to the Old Testament...so they try to make works become an element of salvation. The promised redeemer is there...throughout the Old Testament...but people stumble over it.

 

Remember NN, I came into this argument late. Nowhere have I (nor anyone else in this thread) stated that keeping the law was necessary nor that works were necessary.

 

However it is Scriptural true that prior to the pouring out of the Spirit, any and all true faith was demonstrated by works as opposed to our time in which the Spirit's regeneration is the demonstration of faith in the Gospel.

 

The issue also isn't your last statement about stumbling, the issue is that noone in the OT had any idea what you are talking about or the OT would clearly state that somewhere. You are reading hindsight and thinking the idea could be commonly known when it was in fact completely unknown (a mystery). No stumbling, just unknown. Believing God when He showed Himself to man was the only thing known at the time.

 

Come on folks, think for yourselves about it and put away the simplistic fairy tales. Salvation as we know it since Pentecost didn't even exist in the OT. Those saints had to stay faithful until death. NOT necessarily workful, but FAITHful.

 

Oh and yes, during the tribulation, it will be the same way. There will be no Spirit regeneration, no born again, no saved (as we know it). Those saints will once again have to keep themselves until the day of redemption at death but they too will have the helps of real signs, real visions, real miracles. Not the emotional charismatic BUNK we claim as signs and miracles during our time.

 

I know allot to think about when you are used to the whole "it has always been believing in Jesus" nonsense nowhere in the context in God's Word. A few misinterpreted verses taken out of context and shouted over and over and over again by lazy preachers who don't want to really look into it doesn't make true Bible doctrine and history.




#384340 Dispensations

Posted by wretched on 27 August 2014 - 09:48 PM

I know man, right.

 

What is wrong with those people to believe the Bible on this.

 

After all Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sara, Issac, Jacob all had the OT to study about Jesus' death, burial and Resurrection or did they? No they didn't.

 

What I mean is Moses, Sampson, Rahab and the prophets all had the NT to study of Jesus or did they? No, they didn't.

 

In fact, they had only God who revealed Himself to them personally through many signs, visions, dreams and miracles and they believed God and kept believing God and it was counted to them as righteousness. Make no mistake though folks, it was only the signs, visions, wonders and miracles that kept them believing. There was no indwelling Spirit.

 

It is after all clearly presented in the OT how each of the above were regenerated by the Holy Spirit and sealed until their day of redemption. Look for yourselves, in the OT books of...books of...wait a minute, it ain't in there anywhere. The NT clearly describes that they looked "forward" in hindsight as written chronologically. Those who looked forward to God's promises at the time had no idea of the details, they just believed God when God told them He would provide redemption for all mankind.

 

This overly simplistic view of the Bible is good to keep the lazy, "don't overload me with God's Word" Christians happy and coming I guess. The last thing we want to ever do is make the average Christian think about their faith.

 

This ignorant declaration that folks in the OT were ever born again only feeds the enemies of God.




#383795 Dispensations

Posted by wretched on 25 August 2014 - 08:16 PM

Ken Blue was the pastor who baptized me.  Way back in the day.  :icon_smile:  

 

Never heard of Pastor Blue but ain't that something. The born again world is a whole lot smaller than we think, isn't it




#377800 My Teen Daughter Is Going To Public School Now...

Posted by wretched on 23 June 2014 - 11:18 AM

It would have made allot more sense TGL if you are experimenting with you kids to have put them in public school till 5th or 6th grade and then Christian or Home.

 

What you are doing here is relying on their childhood professions of faith as solid. Rarely are they at these years, young kids believe what the parents believe and do what they think will please their parents. Once they hit 12 or 13, they form their own opinions which will not be yours. In this case they will form the worlds opinions. They will be immersed in the world now. 8 hours a day and you nor your church will be able to compete with that.

 

Since you are gambling with the world, all I can say is "good luck"




#377513 My Teen Daughter Is Going To Public School Now...

Posted by wretched on 20 June 2014 - 02:27 PM

this statement makes no sense, If I didnt want to follow Christ, i would intentionally avoid this place, I live for him and I am here, so how do you explain that?

 BTW, and who is avoiding what?? do you ask yourself this question?? who is the one avoiding issues?? 

 

Here is the point you miss on purpose again Jeff:

 

You come from an environment that has distorted the image of Jesus as a hippy, "mojo risen" liberal with an niv in one hand and a heiniken in the other. That is not the Jesus of God's Word and you absolutely know it in your heart. That is why you come to a forum like this that does worship the True Jesus of the Bible. You fight when you get here because your flesh doesn't want to lose to the Spirit. You keep coming back though and I doubt that you come back just to fight.




#377428 My Teen Daughter Is Going To Public School Now...

Posted by wretched on 19 June 2014 - 09:01 PM

Funny you say that, I am even more convinced by visiting this site at times, that I did the best thing for my family by moving them out of the IFB church. At some responses I get, some people come across as the the Pharisees did in John 5:39, more focused on the laws which Christ has fulfilled, and not focused on Christ Himself, you know, I spoke about that in the do right post. I'm focused in Christ, sharing the Gospel, loving my neighbors, trying to teach my children the same, not hide from the world and judge it, God will do that!

 

I think you pretend to mistake strong meat with legalism to make yourself feel better about your worldly attitude and living. You don't fool me though brother. You may be the only persistent baby christian I have seen on this site.

Persistent babies are those who are convicted of giving into the flesh continuously but in their hearts know better. You come here to learn and you yearn to grow but your flesh keeps talking yourself out of it when you come here so you fight.

I don't want to fight with you because I can tell you do want to follow to Christ truly or you would avoid this site like the plague. This site has its issues but you will certainly grow more here than any contemporary rock and roll church.




#377371 My Teen Daughter Is Going To Public School Now...

Posted by wretched on 19 June 2014 - 01:18 PM

Where would you find this in Scripture and can you back this statement up? To me, this seems to be your opinion that you have turned into a command.Do you believe God is sovereign? I wasn't homeschooled, were you? How many here were?

 

This is way past your level of "Christian" thinking Jeffrey. You won't get it with the Spiritual life, learning and environments you are in. The basic understanding of the Epistles with eyes to see would make your outlook on most of the subjects presented in this forum totally different than they are.

 

Not to be uncharitably in any way Jeff, but your mindset is of the world and not of Christ and until you remove yourself from a watereddown lukewarm church and circle of friends, you will never want to "get" any of this.




#377186 My Teen Daughter Is Going To Public School Now...

Posted by wretched on 18 June 2014 - 11:34 AM

Time and effort on the part of parents is treasure just as well as money.

Where your treasure is, so is your heart.

 

I am not sure whether TGL started this thread to pick a fight or to seek justification.

 

I am no good parent myself and have had my kids in homeschool, Christian and public. When in public it was always because of the treasures mentioned above.

 

No need to air your dirty laundry and expect justification from your peers brother. Putting a believer's kids in public school is sin plain and simple. Keep it to yourself or be honest about it and no one will judge.

 

You are spitting in the air with this thread and trying your hardest to convince us it is raining.




#376921 Nick Adams On Guns

Posted by wretched on 16 June 2014 - 11:34 AM

Hey, the US is still the greatest obamanation on the planet though. Six straight years and running.






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